Press...Press....Press...where's the pull?

KIWI5

More than 300 posts
Someone fill in the gap for me; there seems to be a 'YUGE' amount of pressing in the kettlebell sport world. Asides from chin-ups/pullups- why so little focus on the 'pull'? I've just received my Geoff Neupert programmes and they are excellent- but I just don't see a balancing focus on say, the KB row. Logic would say there was a serious amount of imbalance was being created with all the pressing, but one doesn't see Strongfirst SFG's staggering about or having difficulty remaining upright due to imbalance. So, in the classic Clean+Press/Front Squat drill- where is the pulling motion? Sometimes I miss the obvious...
 

KIWI5

More than 300 posts
Right- I was viewing the swing as a hinge movement- looking at the big 5- push/pull/hinge/squat/carry. I hadn't considered the press negative. The 'upright' comment was some poor humour on my part! I was imagining completely imbalanced individuals.
 

Kettlebelephant

Quadruple-Digit Post Count
Most of the "push-pull imbalance"-thing seems to be happening with bench pressing and similar movements (-> horizontal presses with fixed shoulderblades).
During KB presses and other movements (e.g. pushups) your scapula is free to move around, which IMO is the reason why most people don't experience problems with the high pressing volume in the KB world.
Also like @Shahaf Levin said all the KB ballistics and the TGU (when done properly) engage and train the pulling muscles.
 

KIWI5

More than 300 posts
Now it is becoming clear- I couldn't get my head around the high volume in KB sport compared to say, bench press. My query came about after a clean/press session yesterday- I thought to myself, "I should be rowing....". So the next question- in the classic C&P/Sq drill- is there any need to add on some rowing action or is this not necessary?
 

Chrisdavisjr

Quadruple-Digit Post Count
I remember Pavel comparing 'Enter the Kettlebell' to 'Power to the People' in that it was essentially centred around a Pull and a Press: In the 'Program Minimum', the swing is the pull and the get-up is the press (after a fashion, at least) and in the 'Rite Of Passage', the snatch is the pull and the press is... I forget.

If you swing and snatch (relatively) heavy bells, you'll definitely feel the pulling muscles at work.
 

KIWI5

More than 300 posts
I blame Dan John- I read about his separating the 'push-pull-hinge-squat-carry', I had the swing in the hinge category- I get it now, the swing/snatch do 'double duty'. I still wonder about whether the Clean in the Clean & Press provides enough 'pull'.
 

King Cobra Fit

Matt - CSEP-CPT, SFG I, FMS I&II
Certified Instructor
Check out the Total Tension Complex - Clean/Press/Squat/Renegade Row. I've never put on over all mass as quickly. I can find it in a search in the articles
 

KIWI5

More than 300 posts
Oh yes- I will certainly look at the TOTAL TENSION COMPLEX, the name is awesome and adding in a RENEGADE ROW appears to be solid programming. I say "appears to be" mainly due to the fact that I have no idea what a 'renegade row' is. I'll find out shortly, but it sounds.....dangerously cool. I would like to consider myself somewhat the 'renegade'. My wife might disagree.
 

KIWI5

More than 300 posts
Yup- I've just looked at TTC - and it has got me fired up! In a good way. Perfect timing- I've just received Neuperts KB Strong and will be picking up a second bell. Bring on the.....RENEGADE ROW. I might wear a black balaclava while I doing this complex- I am definitely wearing tactical pants, just to add some fun. Yes, I train at home.....

seeing as I will be using a pair 0f 16kgs for the TTC, looks like I will have to forego the renegade and use a heavy dumbbell instead.....
 
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North Coast Miller

More than 2500 posts
I know I'm in the shunned minority, but I have personally found that I do better when I do some rows along my kettlebell presses.
Slowly raises hand...
I do not view swings, cleans, or TGU as providing the same adaptive response as horizontal pull movements.

The lack of imbalance is due to the pressing being virtually straight overhead, "balanced" between horizontal push and horizontal pull.
 

Nate

Triple-Digit Post Count
I blame Dan John- I read about his separating the 'push-pull-hinge-squat-carry', I had the swing in the hinge category- I get it now, the swing/snatch do 'double duty'. I still wonder about whether the Clean in the Clean & Press provides enough 'pull'.
I had the same binary approach and wanted to categorize in separate PPSHC. I've found the ballistics are double duty if heavy. 2 handed swings (1kb) i only feel as a hinge but volume of any 1 handed (with maintaining shoulder retraction) certainly works the pull (back) for me. Now i also agree there's no problem with also adding rows and chin/pullups. but with volume of 32kg 1 handed, it's not necessary for me and my pulling strength stamina doesn't diminish noticeably.
 

Maine-ah KB

Quadruple-Digit Post Count
I've been doing High pulls and snatches recently. they defiantly work the pull muscles. heavy high pulls kinda feel like rows.
 

vegpedlr

More than 500 posts
Rows and chins feel quite different to me compared to some of the other pulling movements folks have mentioned.

That Total Tension Complex looks like fun. I tried to create something similar for my Easy Strength 40 day with dumbbells, but it didn't work out. DB hang cleans didn't feel right compared to BB, and I will only do renegades on hex DBs for stability, which the gym doesn't have.
 

KIWI5

More than 300 posts
After some thought, I will modify the TT Complex with chin-ups (instead of rows) however, I will pyramid the chin-ups. Just thinking how to program this in- but at least matching the press pyramid.
 

Kozushi

More than 2500 posts
Someone fill in the gap for me; there seems to be a 'YUGE' amount of pressing in the kettlebell sport world. Asides from chin-ups/pullups- why so little focus on the 'pull'? I've just received my Geoff Neupert programmes and they are excellent- but I just don't see a balancing focus on say, the KB row. Logic would say there was a serious amount of imbalance was being created with all the pressing, but one doesn't see Strongfirst SFG's staggering about or having difficulty remaining upright due to imbalance. So, in the classic Clean+Press/Front Squat drill- where is the pulling motion? Sometimes I miss the obvious...
As far as I know the swings are pulls. In the S&S programme, which I follow, we pair the big pull (swings) with the big push (getups) and it seems perfect in my experience.

The high volume is a legitimate concern, but that's what gives us the cardio component which is lacking in the low rep heavy stuff. Otherwise, kettlebells challenge your balance through asymmetrical loads, which is great for real world strength for sports and similar.
 
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