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Kettlebell ROP support group

jlockhart

Level 1 Valued Member
Awesome thread! I had a question about medium days. In two different areas of ETK it recommends two different workouts for medium day. One says CP ladders one rung shorter than Saturday, the other days 5x1 loaded cleans/tgu with a heavier bell.

a fellow trainer and myself are getting ready for the level 1 cert and have been debating which to do. I had been doing the heavy cleans and getups as my medium day but am worried I'm losing out on a day of pressing
 

john

First Post
Jeff, I think the loaded clean/get-up was a variety day ( Thursday, maybe).  I think medium day is ladders, 1 rung less than hard day.  I could be wrong, though.
 

gibbertron

Level 1 Valued Member
Jeff,

john got it right. Also get ups are a great variety day i Highly recommend it.

 

life slowed down a little earlier then expected So I was able to dive back into the rop this week. Started my ladders with the 28  and snatches with the 24.

snatches feel good but I'm keeping the volume low for now.
 

jlockhart

Level 1 Valued Member
Thanks for the responses guys. While I'm at it, does anyone here recommend or have any experience mixing Convict Conditioning in com the variety days? I've been playing with this for some time but have had discussions on whether or not it's over training
 

AMundorf

Level 1 Valued Member
When I made an effort to incorporate CC to the Rite of Passage, I thought along the lines of this.  I would include squats and that's it.  That's the one thing the RoP doesn't have with it.  Abs(leg raises) are already taken care of through swings,snatches and bracing during presses.  Lats and back (pull-up) are taken care of through pull-ups if your super-set them and swings and snatches work your back.  Your push-up I think can be replaced by the C&P even though not the same exact movement.  The question about over-training I think rests on you and your current ability to recover.  IMO 
 

gibbertron

Level 1 Valued Member
I'm not a big fan of "mixing" programs. Keep your goal in mind, once you have hit the rop standards you are free to do as you please but for now just stick to rop.

that being said I don't think there is any problems practicing on variety day. The operative word being practice. I often play around with getups pistols and even the occasional dead lift but nothing and I mean nothing cuts into my swings and presses.
 

danfaz

Level 2 Valued Member
An excellent and fool-proof program. I've never find myself bored with it (nor ROTK), as I love knowing exactly what I need to do each day. Follow the program, and it will work.

If you are new to kb training, the ROP gives you the necessary time to condition your shoulders for overhead work. Many people want to get the 1/2 BW press too quickly, and end up hurting themsleves doing something else.

 
 

griggski

Level 5 Valued Member
Great thread! I am 6 months into the ROP, having just begun pressing 32kg a couple weeks ago. For me, transitioning from 24 kg to 32 kg is the toughest part (no plans to purchase 28 kg).  The last time I completed a cycle with 32 kg (about 6 years ago, sadly), I was still unable to press 40 kg and became very discouraged. I have a much more long-term approach now, and am fully expecting to take at least a year to complete the ROP. I have bought a 36 kg bell to help bridge the pressing gap. 

When I complete a pressing cycle but am not quite ready for a heavier weight, I have found that simply repeating the entire cycle with shorter rest periods will do the trick. Has anyone else been successful using this method? I feel that the ETK book doesn't really address this, assuming that the lifter will be ready for the next bell upon completing a cycle. Any thoughts?
 

brian d

Level 5 Valued Member
I love this thread, and I just wanted to say thanks to Justin again for starting it up.

I also want to give a little update on my progress.  I started the ROP in early August with the 24kg bell.  I've been taking my time with it and have taken a few down weeks here and there, but my progress has always been steady.  I thought getting to the 4th and 5th rungs would be super tough, but each time I approached the next one I had not problem getting it.  Obviously the program works.

This Thursday I'm slated to hit all 5 sets of 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and I'm pretty excited about it.  But I'm even more excited about today.  It was a variety day.  Did my mobility and get ups and goblet squats.  Also did some loaded cleans with the 32kg.  The cleans felt so good I went for the press on the left and got it.  It was extremely slow,  but it went up.  I took a short break and went for it with the right.  It was not quite as pretty as the left side (a bit of side bend), but it also went up.  This was the first time I pressed the 32kg.

It feels odd as it wasn't a test day, but the strength was there so I went for it.
 

gibbertron

Level 1 Valued Member
Kevin,

thats a great tip. I was recently humbled in my attempt at my heavy day attempt with the 28 and have decided to drop snack down to the 24 and do as you prescribe. Ill let you know how it goes. Also I'm really trying to focus on full rom with each press ( shoulder down elbow in trying to stretch the bow of the deltoid). Hopefully this will help me get over this hump.

Brian,

good work, 32 for ladders looks like its just over the horizon.
 

brian d

Level 5 Valued Member
Thanks, Justin.  I do think ladders with the 32 is on the horizon.  It is definitely a ways out there, but hopefully not too far.

Kevin, your post is very timely for me, and I must have been posting mine at the same time as his, cuz I missed it. Like you, I would prefer not to purchase a 28.  For some reason I like just having the classic bell sizes (16, 24, 32).  It took me a while to get from the 16 to the 24, and I imagine the same will be true going from 24 to 32.

My current plan is to finish my ROP ladders over the next few weeks, then take 6 weeks or so to work on some neglected lifts (and the press, too) via Dan John's 40 Day Program, and then I'll probably go through ROP again with the compressed rest.  I've been seeing my rest come down as I move through the program, but it could really come down a lot more.  At that point it should feel like I "own" the 24.

I am curious to hear from others who made the jump from 24 to 32.  What other methods worked for you?  Or is getting a 28 the way to go?  In my head, it seems like the faster route to the 32.
 

MikeMoran

Level 6 Valued Member
Due to an injury I have to take a break from the ROP as it is laid out. I can do strict pressing though and will continue to do so with the 16kg and 24kg I have.

 

 
 

jlockhart

Level 1 Valued Member
Just out of curiosity, (not close to this yet) any thoughts on going to the 28kg instead of the 32? Provided both are available? When I "graduated" to the 24kg, it was from doing ladders with the 16kg, then 20kg. I'm wondering if the bigger jump would be beneficial when the time comes to move up.
 

gibbertron

Level 1 Valued Member
Jeff,

I am still too much of a novice to know "the" answer, but for me smaller jumps allow me to move up a little at a time and nurse My ego.

on the othe hand bigger jumps do force you to own one bell before moving on. Dan John wrote somewhere about only using 25 and 45 pound plates for the barbell because it forces you to really commit to each jump and own the weight. So perhaps bigger jumps are the answer. That being said I'm not sure that logic holds when we are talking about volume presses.

as I said too much of a novice to know.
 

jgruginski

Level 3 Valued Member
Once I completed 5 x 5 ladders with the 16, with 1:1 rest between rungs, I dropped my rest down and worked on 30 sec rest between rungs until I got that solid, and then moved to no rest between rungs with only resting the amount between ladders as my longest 5 rep set(~60 sec). Then I knew I could move up to the 24 with no issues and that proved to be true. My conditioning was better too. 3 x 3 ladders with the 24 supersetted with pullups ala the AOS ETK workbook style were easy to start at that point and progressing to 5 x 3's has gone smoothly with no rest between rungs. I have a history of issues with my left shoulder, so taking the time to own a weight has gone a long way for me and I can solidly press a 32 both sides now.

I think that if you could do 5x3 ladders with the 24 (no rest btw rungs) that you could most likely hit a 32 press, but definitely sure that you could do it if you can do 5x5 with the 24 with no rest between rungs. We could go into discussions about dominant muscle fiber type being a factor in which it would be (5x3 vs. 5x5) but that's pretty pointless here. 5x3 is a good testing point and if that doesn't work,then it'll work once 5x5 is done. Once there, if you needed to, you could work sets of  singles and you'll be on your way to starting 3x3 ladders with the 32 while completely bypassing the 28.

The great thing is that you can tailor ladders to work any way you want them. Need a minute between rungs? Go ahead. Need 5 minutes between ladders? No problem. Just set your baseline, don't go to failure, and then make progress. Pavel warned in another thread about overthinking the ROP and we definitely do. The "rules" are a little loose, but that's why they work.

I recall an article about owning the size kettlebell you have, but can't seem to find it now. I think the 5x5 ladders was the point of moving on to the next 8 kg higher bell. Someone will have to check me on that...
 

brian d

Level 5 Valued Member
Thanks for sharing your experiences, Joe.  I think I can say my 32kg press came somewhere between 5x3 and 5x5.  I tested it just before getting my 5x5 and I got it, but when I'm working on those numbers I am taking some time between the 3d and 4th and then the 4th and 5th rungs on the ladders.

I've been decreasing time steadily while on the ROP, and it is hard to tell if the decreased time is leading to higher numbers and strength or if the increase in numbers is allowing me to decrease time and get more strength.  Doesn't matter, though.  Paying attention to these kinds of phenomena is just one of the many things that make training great.

Early next year I'll probably go through ROP with the 24 again and really focus on compressing the time.  I think there's a good chance that will get me to the 32.  Either way, it will help me out and be fun.
 

askan

Level 5 Valued Member
I will definitely follow this thread. I have been doing ETK PM for some weeks, 16 kg swings and 24 kg getups. I just moved up to 24 kg swings and will continue some more weeks before I start RoP with 20 kg presses, 20 kg snatches and 24 kg swings.

I was thinking to alternate two-arm swings and one-arm swings in PM.  How do you RoP people do? Anybody who alternates 2/1 arm swings and if so, which days do you put them on?
 

brian d

Level 5 Valued Member
Hi Askan,

I think whatever you want with swings is cool.  I've done mixtures of everything, but I noticed when I switched over to doing mostly one-arm swings, it helped my snatch more.

On this ROP cycle I've done almost exclusively one-arm swings, though there were a few weeks when I mixed in two-arm swings with the 32kg on my heavy day.  The other days were one-arm with the 24kg.  That was fun, but I was dealing with some balance issues in my right hip, and I was having better luck staying on top of it with the one-arm swings.  Now I've mostly corrected it through some exercises from Jon Engum. So maybe next year I'll get back to more two-arm swings.

Though really, when I'm comfortable swinging the 32kg with one arm, that is probably where I'll stay. Now that I think of it, I probably prefer the one-arm swings.  So thank you for the question.
 

etristan

Level 5 Valued Member
Hey guys!  I was just wondering something.

I've heard it said that it doesn't matter if you do your ladders in one session or take all day to get them done.  Has anyone here tried that?  I was thinknig about doing just that because that would make the RoP incredibly time effective, which is the main reason that I'm dragging a#@ getting started on it.  Say,  do the ladders throughout the day during breaks at work ("while we're taking coffee breaks they're taking exercise breaks") and then hit my swings and snatches up when I get home.

Any thoughts?
 

jgruginski

Level 3 Valued Member
I've broken up sessions before, but didn't have the conditioning carryover to my regular practice, so I tried my hardest to make it work. However, if it was my only option, I'd take it. I'd just be concerned with going back and forth between sitting and exercise so often in a day. You might want to get into the habit of doing pump stretches before each mini-session to get your spine and disks ready. Also, it might help to keep your schedule as repeatable as possible so you can gauge your progress. Apples to apples, you know?
 
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