Kettlebell ROP support group
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FlyingPig
Level 2 Valued Member
About a month into the ROP with the 24kg here, and I have a question about "working your way up to 5 reps". Today was my heavy day and I did (1,2,3,4,5) x 1 and (1,2,3,4) x 4.
Or as I put in my log:
I'm new to this kind of volume training and it seems those ladders and rungs really catch up with you after a while!
Very happy with the programme so far, already made good progress and even though it's supposed to be a pure strength and not a hypertrophy programme, I can see my arms definitely getting bigger! (though the fact that I eat like a starving dog afterwards may have something to do with it)
Or as I put in my log:
What I'm wondering is, are we supposed to progress in numbers every single week or is it acceptable to stay at the same level for a few weeks? I feel like today I had to push myself too hard (form broke down towards the end and right shoulder didn't feel right) and I should have probably stuck with last week's (1,2,3,4) x 5 and forget about that 5th rep for the first time.
I'm new to this kind of volume training and it seems those ladders and rungs really catch up with you after a while!
Very happy with the programme so far, already made good progress and even though it's supposed to be a pure strength and not a hypertrophy programme, I can see my arms definitely getting bigger! (though the fact that I eat like a starving dog afterwards may have something to do with it)
brian d
Level 5 Valued Member
Hey FlyingPig,
Looks like the program is working well for you. Nice job.
I believe you can repeat weeks if you need to. I have done it. On my last ROP stint I even had to miss a whole heavy day due to some non-workout related banging up. The next heavy day I just repeated the numbers from the previous heavy day that I completed. So I lost a couple weeks, but I ended up just fine.
You don't want to push yourself to failure, or worse, injury.
However, the amazing thing about the ROP is how often I thought I would never be able to go up in numbers. Then a week goes by and you put up more numbers. So you just never know. Listen to your body, though. I don't think you can go wrong if you honestly assess your body.
Looks like the program is working well for you. Nice job.
I believe you can repeat weeks if you need to. I have done it. On my last ROP stint I even had to miss a whole heavy day due to some non-workout related banging up. The next heavy day I just repeated the numbers from the previous heavy day that I completed. So I lost a couple weeks, but I ended up just fine.
You don't want to push yourself to failure, or worse, injury.
However, the amazing thing about the ROP is how often I thought I would never be able to go up in numbers. Then a week goes by and you put up more numbers. So you just never know. Listen to your body, though. I don't think you can go wrong if you honestly assess your body.
tbone42486
Level 2 Valued Member
Currently 1 month in on the ROP as well. I haven't progressed nearly as fast as flying pig, for example my last heavy day was 1 ladder of 4 rungs and 4 of 3. Tomorrow Im gonna try for 3 ladders of 4 rungs and 2 of 3. Last time I attempted ROP I did everything way too fast and just could never get to 5 of 5 no matter how much I strained. This time is gonna be different. I'm taking it as slow as I have to to make sure I'm squeezing everything I can out of each workout. I've started and quit too many programs due to distraction or frustration.
so far its paying off. I wake up the day after a session feeling strong and excited for my next one. I've really been feeling my hips driving the swings and my whole body jumping in on the presses. I get the sense that this program is truly laying a foundation the way it was intended, I just have to bring the kettlebell and the determination.
so far its paying off. I wake up the day after a session feeling strong and excited for my next one. I've really been feeling my hips driving the swings and my whole body jumping in on the presses. I get the sense that this program is truly laying a foundation the way it was intended, I just have to bring the kettlebell and the determination.
FlyingPig
Level 2 Valued Member
Steve, are you also using a 24? I started with a 16kg on June 24th just to try out the weight, but that was too easy (did (1,2,3,4,5) x 5 straight away) so I went with the 24.
I am privileged in a way to arrive late into the strength training game so I am hoping to avoid the mistakes other people have made over the years and remain injury free, hence my question. This forum and the books are a gold mine. I can see how it may be easy to be tempted to move on too quickly so I also plan to take my time to really master that 24. I was disappointed about my form towards the end so that is something to work on. I'm thinking even if you stay stagnant for a week or even more at say this (1,2,3,4) x 5, that is still a decent volume and probably enough to become used to the whole thing without risking injury. I take loads of rest in between and today's presses took about an hour in total.
Brian, thanks for your feedback. I think I'll just see how it goes next week. I'll have two days off now, and then on Monday I should be fresh for an easy (1,2,3) x 5, then Wednesday (1,2,3,4) x 5 and we'll see for next Saturday. It's probably easy to overthink this but it is valuable to bounce some ideas around. I really liked Pavel's Do Not Afraid to Be Alone article, BTW, it's a great feeling, you and the bells alone.
I am privileged in a way to arrive late into the strength training game so I am hoping to avoid the mistakes other people have made over the years and remain injury free, hence my question. This forum and the books are a gold mine. I can see how it may be easy to be tempted to move on too quickly so I also plan to take my time to really master that 24. I was disappointed about my form towards the end so that is something to work on. I'm thinking even if you stay stagnant for a week or even more at say this (1,2,3,4) x 5, that is still a decent volume and probably enough to become used to the whole thing without risking injury. I take loads of rest in between and today's presses took about an hour in total.
Brian, thanks for your feedback. I think I'll just see how it goes next week. I'll have two days off now, and then on Monday I should be fresh for an easy (1,2,3) x 5, then Wednesday (1,2,3,4) x 5 and we'll see for next Saturday. It's probably easy to overthink this but it is valuable to bounce some ideas around. I really liked Pavel's Do Not Afraid to Be Alone article, BTW, it's a great feeling, you and the bells alone.
tbone42486
Level 2 Valued Member
Yes, I am using the 24kg for my presses and swings. I'm using a 16kg for my snatches because my form sucks with the 24 and I want to clean it up some with a lighter weight before I go back to the 24
i own a 32kg, so my goal is to get 5x5 presses with the 24 and 200 snatches in 10 minutes with the 16, then try to do ladders with the 32 and snatches with the 24. That should keep me busy for a while. I weigh about 165-170 so my ultimate press goal is the 40kg
i own a 32kg, so my goal is to get 5x5 presses with the 24 and 200 snatches in 10 minutes with the 16, then try to do ladders with the 32 and snatches with the 24. That should keep me busy for a while. I weigh about 165-170 so my ultimate press goal is the 40kg
Fajita_McJones
Level 2 Valued Member
That jump from 4 reps to 5 reps is a killer with the 24kg. I stuck out my period of being frustrated, didn't switch back to the PM, and have worked through to my 5 rep ladders now. I'm currently at 2(1,2,3,4,5,) and 3(1,2,3,4).
Owning the full set of ladders you're on is vital. If I had it to do over again, there's an experiment I would have liked to have tried to get me ready for jumping up a rung on my heavy day: try doing the same workload on my medium day as my heavy to get myself used to the new increase in volume, and then make the jump up on the heavy day.
For example, if my heavy day is 5x(1,2,3) with a 24kg, I may stick with that on the heavy days for another week or two while I work up to doing that on my medium days as well, and THEN start adding my fourth rung on the heavy day. Anyone else tried that?
I'm going to have to completely abandon that little idea for my next jump because the 32kg is no joke and not something to be played around with. I'm using one now for all of my swings and for my getups on variety days and it kicks my butt.
Owning the full set of ladders you're on is vital. If I had it to do over again, there's an experiment I would have liked to have tried to get me ready for jumping up a rung on my heavy day: try doing the same workload on my medium day as my heavy to get myself used to the new increase in volume, and then make the jump up on the heavy day.
For example, if my heavy day is 5x(1,2,3) with a 24kg, I may stick with that on the heavy days for another week or two while I work up to doing that on my medium days as well, and THEN start adding my fourth rung on the heavy day. Anyone else tried that?
I'm going to have to completely abandon that little idea for my next jump because the 32kg is no joke and not something to be played around with. I'm using one now for all of my swings and for my getups on variety days and it kicks my butt.
brian d
Level 5 Valued Member
@FlyingPig. Your medium day sounds a little challenging compared to what you are doing on your heavy day. I like to drop one full rung from what I did on the heavy day.
So if I hit 1 x 1,2,3,4,5 and 4 x 1,2,3,4 for 55 reps total on the heavy day, I would then do 1 x 1,2,3,4 and 4 x 1,2,3 for 34 reps on the medium day.
Otherwise, just dropping to 5 x 1,2,3,4 on your medium day, you are only doing 5 reps less than your previous heavy day (50 v. 55). It is possible (thought I'm sure there are other variables) that your medium days are not medium enough. Just a thought.
So if I hit 1 x 1,2,3,4,5 and 4 x 1,2,3,4 for 55 reps total on the heavy day, I would then do 1 x 1,2,3,4 and 4 x 1,2,3 for 34 reps on the medium day.
Otherwise, just dropping to 5 x 1,2,3,4 on your medium day, you are only doing 5 reps less than your previous heavy day (50 v. 55). It is possible (thought I'm sure there are other variables) that your medium days are not medium enough. Just a thought.
@brian d FlyingPig is doing ROP exactly as written. The idea is that once you increase your first ladder on heavy day your entire weekly volume goes up. It may not feel much different from heavy to medium day that first week, but you build strength with the added total volume. As the saying goes, "to press a lot, you must press a lot."
FlyingPig
Level 2 Valued Member
Today was heavy day again. It felt good and I managed to improve on last week:
24kg (1,2,3,4,5) x 2 and (1,2,3,4) x 3. (1,2,2,2,2) chin-ups in between. 12 mins 1-handed swings with 24kg, 40s on, 20s off, 23 per minute, 276 total.
Felt a slight discomfort in right shoulder again but it only occurred towards the end of the work-out, I guess the result of becoming tired (later than before). I will go for a check-up with an SFG in a few weeks but my technique seems "good enough" for now to become stronger by the week without becoming injured, fortunately. This programme works.
24kg (1,2,3,4,5) x 2 and (1,2,3,4) x 3. (1,2,2,2,2) chin-ups in between. 12 mins 1-handed swings with 24kg, 40s on, 20s off, 23 per minute, 276 total.
Felt a slight discomfort in right shoulder again but it only occurred towards the end of the work-out, I guess the result of becoming tired (later than before). I will go for a check-up with an SFG in a few weeks but my technique seems "good enough" for now to become stronger by the week without becoming injured, fortunately. This programme works.
DM 1234
Guest
Mate, that is brilliant progress and nice swing numbers, keep it up.
Do you not do the same number of pulls/chins as your ladders? I ask as I was thinking of reducing my numbers as on my last Heavy day, the volume of pulls and chins felt quite a lot.
Do you not do the same number of pulls/chins as your ladders? I ask as I was thinking of reducing my numbers as on my last Heavy day, the volume of pulls and chins felt quite a lot.
Steve Freides
Staff
Flying Pig, the shoulder discomfort may be due to the pullups and not the presses. The presses are the main thing on the ROP, so if you need to drop the pullups or cut them back, do so. I would recommend, if you can't do more than 2 pullups, that you try 1 press, 1 pullup, 2 presses, 2 pullups, then 3 presses, 4 presses, 5 presses with no more pullups and see how you feel, particularly your shoulders. Optional means optional - if it causes pain, drop it like a hot potato.
-S-
-S-
FlyingPig
Level 2 Valued Member
Faisal, I'm just not very good at pull-ups/chin-ups as I've never done them in my life and I'm a fairly big guy (85kg). 5 reps from a dead hang is my max when I'm fresh but I feel like setting the max to 2 seems about right.
Steve, never thought that could actually be the cause of the strain. Thanks, I'll pay attention to that and will only do them the first 2 reps, certainly on heavy day.
Today was easy day, 5 x (1,2,3), and it felt really easy for the first time ever. Also did my first ever set of proper snatches with the 24 without destroying my hands, very pleased with that as it provides me with a basis to work from. 7 minutes, 15sec each hand, one minute off, took it very easy, just focusing on technique. I feel like my conditioning is not the limiting factor, it's more the technique of "taming the arc" and the downward trajectory I need to figure out. Once I have that sorted out I think I can start working towards 100 reps in 5 mins fairly quickly (piece of cake with swings, not sure how more difficult on the body it is to snatch). I can confirm the one-handed swings with the 24 as suggested earlier seem to help me now with the snatch with the 24, which I was too weak for before.
Steve, never thought that could actually be the cause of the strain. Thanks, I'll pay attention to that and will only do them the first 2 reps, certainly on heavy day.
Today was easy day, 5 x (1,2,3), and it felt really easy for the first time ever. Also did my first ever set of proper snatches with the 24 without destroying my hands, very pleased with that as it provides me with a basis to work from. 7 minutes, 15sec each hand, one minute off, took it very easy, just focusing on technique. I feel like my conditioning is not the limiting factor, it's more the technique of "taming the arc" and the downward trajectory I need to figure out. Once I have that sorted out I think I can start working towards 100 reps in 5 mins fairly quickly (piece of cake with swings, not sure how more difficult on the body it is to snatch). I can confirm the one-handed swings with the 24 as suggested earlier seem to help me now with the snatch with the 24, which I was too weak for before.
jgruginski
Level 3 Valued Member
@ FlyingPig - You may need to check the width of your grip and your form at the bottom of the Pullup, also. I've had great personal success by widening my grip a little and not relaxing at the bottom, which would let my shoulders come up and was impinging on my shoulder. It would result in very slight pain during my heavier press days but would feel worse on the down arm during get ups.
Fajita_McJones
Level 2 Valued Member
I was sick the past five days with no working out other than about 2.5 light getups on Thursday, but now I am gonna be getting back to it. I missed Saturday (heavy) and Monday (light), so I'm a little nervous about some possible losses in progress that I'll be making up for. Curious if anyone else has some advice or experience to share after coming back from missing a few workouts?
Fajita_McJones
Level 2 Valued Member
Had my medium day yesterday after missing my heavy and light days on Saturday and Monday. It went well getting back into the C&P ladders, but I was only able to complete 3X(1,2,3,4) and 2X(1,2,3) instead of all five sets up to 4. Hopefully it's just a short setback and I'll be able to at least match my most previous sets of heavy ladders on Saturday.
FlyingPig
Level 2 Valued Member
James, I wouldn't sweat the missed work-outs too much. Nothing you can do about being sick so just get back into it.
Today was Thursday variety for me and I had fun cleaning the 32kg, 5x5, alternated with TGU each side. It kicked my butt but it felt good! Last month that clean felt really brutal and almost ripped my hand open, but now it feels manageable (I'm using socks now) and I can anticipate the "punch" better. At the end I tried pressing for a 1RM but failed miserably. Shouldn't even have tried, I know. Swinging the 32kg single-handedly is getting easier.
Today was Thursday variety for me and I had fun cleaning the 32kg, 5x5, alternated with TGU each side. It kicked my butt but it felt good! Last month that clean felt really brutal and almost ripped my hand open, but now it feels manageable (I'm using socks now) and I can anticipate the "punch" better. At the end I tried pressing for a 1RM but failed miserably. Shouldn't even have tried, I know. Swinging the 32kg single-handedly is getting easier.
DM 1234
Guest
Had a week off the ROP due to travel and tweaked elbow, did 50 pressups each evening from Sunday to Thursday 8x5 + 2x5... Today was first day back on the ROP and my heavy day, I didn't do pulls or chins as was worried about the elbow but did 5 x (1,2,3,4,5) with the 16kg... Planning to use the 16 on my light and medium with chin-ups then do a test on Saturday
fdmroz
Level 2 Valued Member
Question for the experience ROPs out there. Tomorrow I am scheduled for my 2nd variety day, ( i do nothing on the first ) and I am also scheduled to play golf tomorrow. 18 holes. I really want to do my variety stuff which is a few getups, goblets and crush curls. Should I not do anything ,and just play golf or is it cool to do both?