Kettlebell S & S weights

[StanStan]

So, after months of fiddling to find a program that is time efficient and (hopefully) effective, I have settled on a home-made KB & bodyweight workout 3 days a week, and S&S 3 days a week.

First session of S&S tonight, with 10x10 1H swings at 24 kg in under 6 mins, and 5 sets of TGUs at 16 kg in about 7min 30s.

I intend to keep using these weights for a few sessions, to get comfortable with this routine. The TGU @20kg is definitely within reach, however, I cannot press 20kg with my 'strong' (i.e., weak) arm (4 x 16kg max on the strict press). Do you think it is acceptable to assist with the stronger arm for the press phase of the TGU?

For the swings, is it better to move up to 28 or 32kg?

 

[Anna C]

Do you think it is acceptable to assist with the stronger arm for the press phase of the TGU?

Yes, either 1H or 2H is OK for the floor press phase, to get your arm fully extended while lying on the ground.

For the swings, is it better to move up to 28 or 32kg?

The program says 32kg, but if you find the 28 better for you, then, it can be better. I like the 28kg myself... earlier this week I did an S&S session and it was the "goldilocks" bell. 24kg too light, 32kg too heavy. As far as moving up, you may find that working with the 28kg will allow you to work in sets of 10 swings, whereas the 32kg you may have to work in some 2H swings, or sets of 5-8 swings, if it is too heavy. But back to the program -- there is some wisdom there (of course), the somewhat shocking weight change can send that message to your body to "get strong".

 

[Sean M]

First session of S&S tonight, with 10x10 1H swings at 24 kg in under 6 mins, and 5 sets of TGUs at 16 kg in about 7min 30s.

Remember not to train at the "test" times every time. If you can hit the time standard at a given weight any day, it's time to go heavier.

 

[pet']

Hello,

@StanStan

For the swings, is it better to move up to 28 or 32kg?

28kg sounds good to me. I started with a 20kg bell for a long time and then jumped to 28. 8 kg is quite a big jump, above all if you want to to the move with correct form. This is a "super" weight. I used it during almost one year before moving on.

Do you think it is acceptable to assist with the stronger arm for the press phase of the TGU?

If the 2H version helps you to have a proper form for the next step of the move, then use this version. It is a critical part. If your arm is not fully extended, you will feel fatigue (and possibly pain) earlier in the move and in it will be difficult to maintain balance.

Do not train too hard too often.

Kind regards,

Pet'

 

[crazycanuck]

Hello,




If the 2H version helps you to have a proper form for the next step of the move, then use this version. It is a critical part. If your arm is not fully extended, you will feel fatigue (and possibly pain) earlier in the move and in it will be difficult to maintain balance.

Do not train too hard too often.

Kind regards,

Pet'

as someone currently working in a heavier swing weight, two hands is very helpful! I can do something like 3T (two handed), 2R, 3T, 2L and have some momentum and good hip drive from the two handed, and it is a matter of just taking a hand off the bell for two reps...time to practice anti rotation and all that, without losing my grip or power.Over time you can progress to more and more one handed.

 

[pet']

Hello,

When I was involved in S&S, to reach Simple standard, I used both 2H and 1H.
At the beginning, I used to to all swings @32 with 2H. Then, I progressively incorporated 1H, by sets of 5, then 10 (each side) and so on. It is a long process, but it works well.

Kind regards,

Pet'

 

[Ryan Toshner]

Technically, the standard on the TGU is to press/lower the bell with 2 hands.

As for the swings... if you have both sizes, use each of them on various days of the week (so long as you can swing the 32 safely and up to standards).

Also, I'd suggest tracking your time-to-completion each session... but don't try to beat it... ever... unless you're testing out. Use the "talk test" described in the book. In other words, "observe" the clock, but don't "race" it. You'll be amazed at how quickly you'll actually make progress...

 

[StanStan]

Thanks for all the replies.

So all good for the TGU press with two hands, that's perfect.

As far as time is concerned, I used the "talk test" in the first session, so it is a good indication that a heavier bell may be needed for the swing. I had been doing double KB swings (to about waist level) for 25 x 10 reps for a few weeks, which probably helped. Grip may be the limiting factor here though, but swinging the 32 kg with both hands would provide a solution.

The initial plan was to get two 28 kg bells for the double front squat; however, opening the hips with the prying goblet squat during warmup has actually allowed me to squat fully. It is good in the sense that I can have a little rest at the bottom of the squat (without losing form), but it also makes getting up a little more difficult! Will stick to double 24s for the time being.

Again, thanks for your views on this.

 

[ClaudeR]

home-made KB & bodyweight workout 3 days a week

so what is the homemade program?

 

[Deleted member 5559]

Even though 2H is technically correct/ok, I would not feel appropriate moving up a weight. I think there are benefits to quality 1H floor presses that should be gained prior to moving to the next weight. I would even go so far that being able to perform a press at each transition point in the TGU (only a single TGU, not all 5) is necessary for me to confidently claim I earned the next bell.

Also, I think there is a big advantage to using a single bell for both due to balance of fitness/strength. I personally would rather slow down on my swing progress and wait for the TGU to catch up to stay balanced. Imbalances are breeding grounds for injury and one of the reasons S&S is such a sophisticated program.

 

[StanStan]

so what is the homemade program?

Currently, the workout is:

Superset 1:
Pull-ups or Chin-ups followed by squats (double KB front squat or bulgarian split squat), 5 sets, 45 s rest between sets

Rest 1'30 to 2'00

Superset 2:
Dips followed by cleans or snatches, 5 sets, 45 s rest between sets

Rest 1'30 to 2'00

TGU, 5 sets

It used to be too long and too complex, with up to 8 exercises...

 

[Kozushi]

Hello,

When I was involved in S&S, to reach Simple standard, I used both 2H and 1H.
At the beginning, I used to to all swings @32 with 2H. Then, I progressively incorporated 1H, by sets of 5, then 10 (each side) and so on. It is a long process, but it works well.

Kind regards,

Pet'

I did exactly the same thing.

 

[StanStan]

I did exactly the same thing.

How did that work for you?

 

[StanStan]

Even though 2H is technically correct/ok, I would not feel appropriate moving up a weight. I think there are benefits to quality 1H floor presses that should be gained prior to moving to the next weight. I would even go so far that being able to perform a press at each transition point in the TGU (only a single TGU, not all 5) is necessary for me to confidently claim I earned the next bell.

Also, I think there is a big advantage to using a single bell for both due to balance of fitness/strength. I personally would rather slow down on my swing progress and wait for the TGU to catch up to stay balanced. Imbalances are breeding grounds for injury and one of the reasons S&S is such a sophisticated program.

I understand your point of view. However, as the TGU hit more areas than just the press, isn't there potential to hinder progress in other aspects of the movement?

 

[Kozushi]

How did that work for you?

It worked great going up to the 32kg bell but it failed for the 40. What happened with the 40 is that when I was doing a lot of singles with the 32 I could jump up to the 40 and do lots of singles because I guess that my muscles were attuned to the single swing movements, but if I took a few days off single swinging the 40, I lost the ability to do more than two or three singles with the 40. So, I basically do not have the strength to do sets of 5 or 10 with the 40 anymore. And, if that's the case, then the plan to do 5 or 10 and then 20 with the 40 single handedly and the rest two handedly falls apart for me right there. It seems that when I go beyond a third of my bodyweight in bells, the muscles are straining differently, and the two handed swing power does just not transfer over EVER to single handed swing power.

Someone mentioned somewhere that when you go over a third of your bodyweight in kettlebell weight, you change from power to strength, and so I suspect there is something weird going on. I'm going back to the 32, possibly for quite a while now. I think I'm LOSING something by using the 40. Weird, eh?

 

[StanStan]

It worked great going up to the 32kg bell but it failed for the 40. What happened with the 40 is that when I was doing a lot of singles with the 32 I could jump up to the 40 and do lots of singles because I guess that my muscles were attuned to the single swing movements, but if I took a few days off single swinging the 40, I lost the ability to do more than two or three singles with the 40. So, I basically do not have the strength to do sets of 5 or 10 with the 40 anymore. And, if that's the case, then the plan to do 5 or 10 and then 20 with the 40 single handedly and the rest two handedly falls apart for me right there. It seems that when I go beyond a third of my bodyweight in bells, the muscles are straining differently, and the two handed swing power does just not transfer over EVER to single handed swing power.

Someone mentioned somewhere that when you go over a third of your bodyweight in kettlebell weight, you change from power to strength, and so I suspect there is something weird going on. I'm going back to the 32, possibly for quite a while now. I think I'm LOSING something by using the 40. Weird, eh?

Interesting. 24 kg is almost a third of my bodyweight (79 kg), so maybe 28 kg is the better option.

 

[Deleted member 5559]

...However, as the TGU hit more areas than just the press, isn't there potential to hinder progress in other aspects of the movement?

I don't mean to replace the TGU with floor presses. Just that I would not start working with a new weight until I was performing 1H presses for my TGUs. I think there is a lot of value in being able to easily move a bell on any plane of movement before using a heavier bell for movements that you can. I would rather move everything slowly but together than have a few movements stronger than others.