Kettlebell Simple & Sinister = Pressing Strength?

[Pavel Macek]

@Pavel Macek wrote an article about using S&S for an MMA fighter, and stated that they started alternating getups and push presses once they got over 32kg.

Perhaps that would be the minimal change you could do - every other session replace the get up with a press. Depending on how that and your get ups go, you could consider making bigger changes, but a couple of months alternating 10x1 getups with 10x10 push presses sounds pretty imPRESSive. (Sorry couldn't resist.)

Please check out the article here: S&C Training for MMA With Simple & Sinister | StrongFirst

 

[Mark Limbaga]

Thanks Mark
In a couple weeks I have a 2 week backpack trip in the mountains that will be tough and always knocks about 5-8 lbs off me. After I get back I’ll have to figure out some specific goals. Hypertrophy might be the first one I need?

I’ve been pretty consistent for the past 3-4 months with the exercises I mentioned earlier, and I’m definitely getting stronger and a little thicker during that time.

Steak ? and more steak ? to pack on some muscle

 

[IMayAgainKnowChris]

Steak ? and more steak ? to pack on some muscle

I hope you’re right about the steaks. Up to almost 2lbs a day. Still gradually losing fat too. Unbelievable that this works. <20g carbs. Lots of steak. Lots of eggs. Real Vince Gironda style. Minus the carb loading days.

 

[pet']

Hello,

Sounds almost like a ketogenic diet !

My best body composition was when I ran RoP actually

Kind regards,

Pet'

 

[AndyMcL]

I actually saw a significant increase in overhead strength while on S+S; my press with the 32kg went from 2L/4R to 4L/6R over about 6 weeks. During this time I would once or twice a week do 3 or 4 singles with the 24kg. This was my only pressing.

Is it as effective as a pressing specific program? Probably not, but with TGU you get a large amount of time under tension with a significant weight.

 

[Molson]

I actually saw a significant increase in overhead strength while on S+S; my press with the 32kg went from 2L/4R to 4L/6R over about 6 weeks. During this time I would once or twice a week do 3 or 4 singles with the 24kg. This was my only pressing.

Is it as effective as a pressing specific program? Probably not, but with TGU you get a large amount of time under tension with a significant weight.

Interesting,

What weight were you using for S&S itself?

 

[banzaiengr]

Make the goal the goal. What was the goal when you started S&S? If it was simple then work on S&S until you reach simple. If you want a strong press then you'll have to press. The strict SF way is reach simple and then into Right of Passage.

There's other ways to do it. Something like a 4 day/week program with swings, get ups, and presses. Get ups and presses each only two days/week. But again, what's the goal?

 

[pet']

Hello,

As an alternative, Aleks Salkins mentioned an interesting strategy to increase pressing strength, up to 1/2 bdw:
GU (using S&S) and a steady diet of OA push ups. The latter did not follow a specific rep/set but used GTG.

Of course, this is not 'optimal' because progress remained slow (comparing to a true press program or at least a program with press in it) and because it required additional effort. But it worked.

Kind regards,

Pet'

 

[AndyMcL]

Interesting,

What weight were you using for S&S itself?

I worked up to doing all get ups with the 40kg. I think getting used to handling the bigger bell overhead was very beneficial. I wish I'd gone with a pressing specific program after to try and take advantage of the new overhead strength

 

[NormanOsborn]

Make the goal the goal. What was the goal when you started S&S? If it was simple then work on S&S until you reach simple. If you want a strong press then you'll have to press. The strict SF way is reach simple and then into Right of Passage.

There's other ways to do it. Something like a 4 day/week program with swings, get ups, and presses. Get ups and presses each only two days/week. But again, what's the goal?

My goal was to continue to train while the gyms were closed during Lockdown. It was Kettlebells or Calisthenics, and KB's sounded more interesting. Since I was a Kettlebell virgin at that point, I chose S & S because it did what it said on the tin: it offered a Simple, easy to follow program(not saying the actual training is easy, of course).

 

[banzaiengr]

My goal was to continue to train while the gyms were closed during Lockdown. It was Kettlebells or Calisthenics, and KB's sounded more interesting. Since I was a Kettlebell virgin at that point, I chose S & S because it did what it said on the tin: it offered a Simple, easy to follow program(not saying the actual training is easy, of course).

I think you're doing the right thing then. Will you lose some pressing ability, probably but maybe not. But you're not benching or squatting either so you could lose a bit in that department too if you were doing them before. Some don't and I'm guessing you'd only need a week or two to be back where you were or heavier. Remember this, S&S is the least amount of training you can do and see results. It's not the cure all for anything except general physical preparedness.

 

[offwidth]

It's not the cure all for anything

Dang... you mean my hair isn’t gonna grow back...?

 

[IMayAgainKnowChris]

Dang... you mean my hair isn’t gonna grow back...?

Mine did. Just on my back and in my nose. #thankspavel

 

[banzaiengr]

Dang... you mean my hair isn’t gonna grow back...?

Mine hasn't Brian but then you be da man.

 

[NormanOsborn]

I think you're doing the right thing then. Will you lose some pressing ability, probably but maybe not. But you're not benching or squatting either so you could lose a bit in that department too if you were doing them before. Some don't and I'm guessing you'd only need a week or two to be back where you were or heavier. Remember this, S&S is the least amount of training you can do and see results. It's not the cure all for anything except general physical preparedness.

Wait...so S & S won't give me Super Powers?! I'm sending the book back to Amazon and demanding a refund!

 

[Kozushi]

Pressing is a much more limited movement than a TGU. A TGU is gets the whole body more involved in the action than a press.
I have always done some presses alongside S&S.

 

[NormanOsborn]

Hello,

As an alternative, Aleks Salkins mentioned an interesting strategy to increase pressing strength, up to 1/2 bdw:
GU (using S&S) and a steady diet of OA push ups. The latter did not follow a specific rep/set but used GTG.

Of course, this is not 'optimal' because progress remained slow (comparing to a true press program or at least a program with press in it) and because it required additional effort. But it worked.

Kind regards,

Pet'

Lol, it takes me all my time to do normal push-ups, never mind the One Arm version!

 

[pet']

Hello,

@NormanOsborn
This kind of push up is time well invested. Indeed, once you can do them day in day out, it gives you both a great regular push up endurance, and also a good core exercise. In addition, it transfers well to bench press.

When performed with HSPU, it gives you a wonderful push training, which helps for the GU maintenance, but also transfer so well in daily life.

At the beginning I was skeptical...but it gets the job done super nicely.

I do them everyday with GTG, but swear by them when away from weight. A good example of how powerful they are: gymnasts usually have a great pressing strength. Some high level wrestling coaches argue that a steady diet of push ups and sprint is a great combination to be a good athlete.

The Naked Warrior is a wonderful tool to get the right progression towards it. Convict Conditioning as well.

If you pair them with pistol squat progression, then a GU, 'regardless the weight is just a matter of technique, not a matter of weight'.

Kind regards,

Pet'

 

[NormanOsborn]

Hello,

@NormanOsborn
This kind of push up is time well invested. Indeed, once you can do them day in day out, it gives you both a great regular push up endurance, and also a good core exercise. In addition, it transfers well to bench press.

When performed with HSPU, it gives you a wonderful push training, which helps for the GU maintenance, but also transfer so well in daily life.

At the beginning I was skeptical...but it gets the job done super nicely.

I do them everyday with GTG, but swear by them when away from weight. A good example of how powerful they are: gymnasts usually have a great pressing strength. Some high level wrestling coaches argue that a steady diet of push ups and sprint is a great combination to be a good athlete.

The Naked Warrior is a wonderful tool to get the right progression towards it. Convict Conditioning as well.

If you pair them with pistol squat progression, then a GU, 'regardless the weight is just a matter of technique, not a matter of weight'.

Kind regards,

Pet'

I did consider just adding press ups - with both arms! - to S & S, but I'm wary of trying to second guess Pavel.

 

[pet']

Hello,

@NormanOsborn
S&S and any relatively low pressing volume (if we exclude GTG which finally generates a lot of volume) pair very well. You do a good choice IMHO !

Here is an article about the proper technique for the regular press up:

One Good Rep: How to Perform the Perfect Pushup | StrongFirst

Done well, the push-up will give great strength gains and can be done anywhere at any time. But first, we need to make sure you can do one great repetition.

www.strongfirst.com

Here is the power push up:

Plans for Building Powerful Pushups | StrongFirst

It's no secret good pushups can build total body strength, but for maximal carry over to sport & life, you need to add explosive power.

www.strongfirst.com

Below for the OA version:

Unlocking the One-arm Push-up | StrongFirst

Mastering the fundamentals and using them for guidance is key. Here is how this perspective created my own aha moment regarding the one-arm push-up.

www.strongfirst.com

Here what you can achieve with proper technique and GTG with high volume :

Strength in Numbers: A Case for Pushup Endurance Training | StrongFirst

With push-up endurance training I maintain absolute strength without having to train it on a regular basis. This keeps us strong without the risk of injury.

www.strongfirst.com

Kind regards,

Pet'