Kettlebell Swing Form Check - 2 handed
- Thread starter Tony
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Brett Jones
StrongFirst Director of Education
Master Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
Beast Tamer
Looks good to me
Steve Freides
Staff
@Tony, you might want to investigate sitting back into your hip hinge more. You look like you maintain good back position throughout, but the back-most portion of your swing finds your hips staying in the same place and your hamstrings taking up the rest of the range of motion.
If it was a test of swing form, I'd certainly pass you, but since you asked for "any feedback," that's what I'd try to do to make it better. I really like what your first swing looks like - you might try practicing single swings - hike, swing to the front, catch in back, park the bell on the ground, repeat.
-S-
If it was a test of swing form, I'd certainly pass you, but since you asked for "any feedback," that's what I'd try to do to make it better. I really like what your first swing looks like - you might try practicing single swings - hike, swing to the front, catch in back, park the bell on the ground, repeat.
-S-
Derek Okahashi
Level 1 Valued Member
@ 3:15 of the video @Karen Smith does a great job with what @Steve Freides is recommending. I am not qualified to critique yet but good job if you got the pass from Steve and Brett! Into Board video next?
Steve W.
Level 7 Valued Member
@Tony
I agree with @Steve Freides, you could definitely sit back deeper into the hinge.
Since your hips are not going back much, you finish moving your hips back way before the completion of the back swing. Once your hips stop moving back, you are getting folded forward; your shoulders keep coming down long after the hips have finished moving back. Then on the up swing, it seems like you are unfolding by leading with your shoulders before your hips drive forward.
I prefer to see the hips, shoulders and knees start and finish together. It's okay to fold forward as much as you are, but it should be counterbalanced by backward movement of the hips and and should occur in synch with the hip movement.
When you do a KB deadlift, try to keep the bell back between your heels. Focus on sitting back at far as possible. Note how this position feels and make that your target for the bottom of your swing. In the swing, aim to hit that position all at once, not hips back THEN fold forward.
Looks good overall, but to fine tune, this is the issue I would try to address.
I agree with @Steve Freides, you could definitely sit back deeper into the hinge.
Since your hips are not going back much, you finish moving your hips back way before the completion of the back swing. Once your hips stop moving back, you are getting folded forward; your shoulders keep coming down long after the hips have finished moving back. Then on the up swing, it seems like you are unfolding by leading with your shoulders before your hips drive forward.
I prefer to see the hips, shoulders and knees start and finish together. It's okay to fold forward as much as you are, but it should be counterbalanced by backward movement of the hips and and should occur in synch with the hip movement.
When you do a KB deadlift, try to keep the bell back between your heels. Focus on sitting back at far as possible. Note how this position feels and make that your target for the bottom of your swing. In the swing, aim to hit that position all at once, not hips back THEN fold forward.
Looks good overall, but to fine tune, this is the issue I would try to address.
Steve Freides
Staff
@Steve W., if everyone reading along will forgive us delving into some of the finer distinctions in this ...
I know not everyone has my flexibility, but if you do, the advice to "focus on sitting back as far as possible" can actually cause you to sit back _too_ far, turning your kettlebell deadlift into a squat. I know this from first-hand experience because, about six months ago at our 2017 StrongFirst annual leadership conference, I asked @Brett Jones why I was able to set the bell further back than what I saw my colleagues around me doing, and he told me it was because I was squatting my deadlift. The give-away clue for most people would be their knees coming forward but I'm able to manage this while keeping my shins still very close to vertical. It's a cool stunt
but it makes my kettlebell deadlift worse, not better.
The cue I prefer is to push back into your hips as much as you can. If you can get your _hips_ further back, that's good, but getting the _kettlebell_ further back can also involve getting the hips too far down. I'm not sure it's just flexibility - I think it's strong hip flexors that allow me to do this, and undoubtedly something about my limb lengths, weight distribution, and leverages, too.
I just did a little test, positioning my feet so that the back of my heels were just touching a line on the floor. My furtherest-back kettlebell deadlift found the handle completely and just behind the line; my best kettlebell deadlift in terms of pushing into my hips found the handle completely and just in _front_ of the line. That makes the difference in placement about the thickness of a kettlebell handle, which is about 1-1/2" for the 44 kg I was using. (I know that if I chose a lighter bell, I could set it down even further back.) It's an interesting, IMHO, distinction. In the squatty deadlift, my thighs were close to parallel to the ground, but in the better one, they were higher and my hips were higher.
-S-
I know not everyone has my flexibility, but if you do, the advice to "focus on sitting back as far as possible" can actually cause you to sit back _too_ far, turning your kettlebell deadlift into a squat. I know this from first-hand experience because, about six months ago at our 2017 StrongFirst annual leadership conference, I asked @Brett Jones why I was able to set the bell further back than what I saw my colleagues around me doing, and he told me it was because I was squatting my deadlift. The give-away clue for most people would be their knees coming forward but I'm able to manage this while keeping my shins still very close to vertical. It's a cool stunt
but it makes my kettlebell deadlift worse, not better.The cue I prefer is to push back into your hips as much as you can. If you can get your _hips_ further back, that's good, but getting the _kettlebell_ further back can also involve getting the hips too far down. I'm not sure it's just flexibility - I think it's strong hip flexors that allow me to do this, and undoubtedly something about my limb lengths, weight distribution, and leverages, too.
I just did a little test, positioning my feet so that the back of my heels were just touching a line on the floor. My furtherest-back kettlebell deadlift found the handle completely and just behind the line; my best kettlebell deadlift in terms of pushing into my hips found the handle completely and just in _front_ of the line. That makes the difference in placement about the thickness of a kettlebell handle, which is about 1-1/2" for the 44 kg I was using. (I know that if I chose a lighter bell, I could set it down even further back.) It's an interesting, IMHO, distinction. In the squatty deadlift, my thighs were close to parallel to the ground, but in the better one, they were higher and my hips were higher.
-S-
Steve W.
Level 7 Valued Member
@Steve Freides, I agree that as an isolated cue, keeping the KB back can lead to squattiness, as that's one way to keep the KB back further. I tried to qualify that cue by emphasizing sitting back and not dropping the hips down as in a squat. Also, I use the phrase "between the heels," rather than "behind the heels," or "as far back as possible."
Obviously, it's not foolproof (or non-fool proof, either).
Like with a lot of cues, it can make more sense if you already understand and can do the action that is being cued. If you don't, HOPEFULLY the cue can trigger the right action, but it can be a bit hit and miss. Hence, a variety of cues that will click with a variety of people. This one clicks with me, so I tend to recommend it.
Brett uses the guideline "shoulders above hips, hips above knees," which would preclude a deep squattiness, but not necessarily any undesirable squatty tendency, since the KB DL doesn't require such a great range of motion.
Obviously, it's not foolproof (or non-fool proof, either).
Like with a lot of cues, it can make more sense if you already understand and can do the action that is being cued. If you don't, HOPEFULLY the cue can trigger the right action, but it can be a bit hit and miss. Hence, a variety of cues that will click with a variety of people. This one clicks with me, so I tend to recommend it.
Brett uses the guideline "shoulders above hips, hips above knees," which would preclude a deep squattiness, but not necessarily any undesirable squatty tendency, since the KB DL doesn't require such a great range of motion.
Tony
Level 4 Valued Member
Wow, what a great forum. I threw up a video asking for swing form check and I got real insight from several people. Thanks very much for thoughtful replies @Steve Freides , @Steve W , @Derek Okahashi , @Oscar and @Brett Jones !
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