"The Best All-Around Training Method EVER"- 6 months in, I'd say YES!!!!!

[Halfakneecap]

Here’s a question, from someone interested in KBSF LCCJ but who has never done a jerk before. What have people found to be the best way to learn jerks? Has anyone self-taught using the KBSF videos and the manual’s suggested practice protocols? How long did it take?

I’m just antsy about cutting into other programs for the sake of practicing a new move. Because I’m a weirdo. KBSF is on the back burner until I finish the Giant+KSK alternating block program I’m running now. But I’m thinking ahead.

Try doing it with push press. Then add some jerk practice in until you get the hang of it ?

 

[Pete L]

Here’s a question, from someone interested in KBSF LCCJ but who has never done a jerk before. What have people found to be the best way to learn jerks? Has anyone self-taught using the KBSF videos and the manual’s suggested practice protocols? How long did it take?

I’m just antsy about cutting into other programs for the sake of practicing a new move. Because I’m a weirdo. KBSF is on the back burner until I finish the Giant+KSK alternating block program I’m running now. But I’m thinking ahead.

I bought KBSF from BJJ Fanatics when it first came out. I was practicing the Swing and TGU protocol and playing around with the progressions, as per the videos and book, for a few weeks on the side.
I felt the bell needed to be heavier than my pressing bell (perhaps obviously) so didn't start in earnest until a new one arrived a few weeks later.

 

[Bauer]

Here’s a question, from someone interested in KBSF LCCJ but who has never done a jerk before. What have people found to be the best way to learn jerks? Has anyone self-taught using the KBSF videos and the manual’s suggested practice protocols? How long did it take?

I’m just antsy about cutting into other programs for the sake of practicing a new move. Because I’m a weirdo. KBSF is on the back burner until I finish the Giant+KSK alternating block program I’m running now. But I’m thinking ahead.

I have used the videos to learn it. For some time I just did a lot of lighter singles, then working in a heavier bell. I think it is best to start timeless as long as technique might be an issue.

 

[BJJ Shawn]

So, today I did my first session with this protocol, and I definitely enjoyed it. I plan to stick with this for at least 3 months to see how I feel, but so far so good.

I’m only using a 24kg bell because I can’t comfortably complete 6 reps with my left with the 32kg as my shoulder just didn’t feel stable enough in the catch. 24 may be a bit light for me, but not ridiculously light so it should still work well.

First session, so I only did 1 LCCJ every 30 seconds and had no problem with the talk test. However, looking back at my HR graph my session almost looks reversed with my HR going down over time, not up. Any ideas as to why this is?

 

[Pete L]

So, today I did my first session with this protocol, and I definitely enjoyed it. I plan to stick with this for at least 3 months to see how I feel, but so far so good.

I’m only using a 24kg bell because I can’t comfortably complete 6 reps with my left with the 32kg as my shoulder just didn’t feel stable enough in the catch. 24 may be a bit light for me, but not ridiculously light so it should still work well.

First session, so I only did 1 LCCJ every 30 seconds and had no problem with the talk test. However, looking back at my HR graph my session almost looks reversed with my HR going down over time, not up. Any ideas as to why this is?

Reduced tension perhaps?
Or reducing glycolysis as your aerobic system kicks?
(Clearly no idea )
Yet evidently working well within your capabilities.

 

[3letterslong]

So, today I did my first session with this protocol, and I definitely enjoyed it. I plan to stick with this for at least 3 months to see how I feel, but so far so good.

I’m only using a 24kg bell because I can’t comfortably complete 6 reps with my left with the 32kg as my shoulder just didn’t feel stable enough in the catch. 24 may be a bit light for me, but not ridiculously light so it should still work well.

First session, so I only did 1 LCCJ every 30 seconds and had no problem with the talk test. However, looking back at my HR graph my session almost looks reversed with my HR going down over time, not up. Any ideas as to why this is?

I frequently have the experience with new workouts that they start out really difficult and partway through it gets much easier. It's absolute bro science on my part, but it feels like my CNS wasn't ready for what we were going to do and then sorts itself out. My first workout with a sandbag started out rough -- it was harder to lift than expected and everything in my body just felt awful -- but halfway through it was easier to lift and my body was starting to figure out a groove. I experience it with all kinds of workouts, not just strength work.

 

[Adachi]

Reduced tension perhaps?
Or reducing glycolysis as your aerobic system kicks?
(Clearly no idea )
Yet evidently working well within your capabilities.

I have experienced some of this, sometimes. I personally believe this has to do with the ramp up of the aerobic fatty acids metabolism coming more fully online.

I have done more thorough warm-ups with jogging or jumping jacks. And e.g. I believe that contributed to a much better feeling 1st rep in my deadlift session overall. Not to mention neurological and other factors associated with suitable warm up routines.

I believe the energetics padding of a more completely activated energy replenishment system, makes a noticable difference to the practitioner.

 

[Provx]

just made it through all 30 minutes of the 1 arm c&j plan with a 24 kg bell. clean jerk, clean jerk, clean.

feeling good, nice improvements since starting the plan. next week we start tackling 3 clean and jerks and working towards finishing all 60 sets and 180 reps in the half hour.

 

[Xcal]

I started this on 1 July (2 sessions per week). The first session was 16kg C+J every 45 seconds. my HR really coped well (under Maf/talk test/green zone HR). The second session was similar. For the 3rd session: I added a clean with with 24kg every 2or3 sets and the 16kg was mostly C+J+J. Yesterday's (4th) session was every 30s but WOW, I quickly realized that the extra 15s is a huge difference to recovery! so I updated my session on the fly:
1. warmup= planned Goblet squats and halos (+- 5 min)
2. 2 rounds of E30s 16 KG C+J+C. realized that I was not ready for this!
3. 2 rounds of E30s 16 KG C+J -> failed talk test
4. rest of a minute
5. 4 rounds of E30s 24KG Clean
6. rest of 2 minutes although it about 1min when my HR dropped well bellow Maf/talktest/blue zone. I just thought i'd take it easy for another session or 3.
7. 4 rounds of E30s 16kg C+J
rinse repeat 4 rounds of e30s swapping between 16kg/24kg for a total of 30 minutes, then walked around to cool-off

this is not the approach as written, but I think I benefit because I had sufficient quantity and quality. This pushes me to the edge (failing talk test) but pause for 2minutes and attack again with full strength. My next session will either: shorten those 2min rests; or extend to 40 minutes; or make it 6 rounds E30s before the 1or2min rest. I will judge as I go along.

 

[Dydo]

I tried this workout on Monday because I hadn't trained like this and I was curious how it would feel. C+J with KB20. I had no problem doing 30 reps on each arm in 30 minutes. With one hand at the start of the minute and with the other after the 30 seconds have elapsed. I sweated a lot, but I'm far from tired according to the speaking test. However, this program is designed for BJJ athletes who also have a primary occupation in their sport. I don't know if it's worth doing if you don't train something else. Also, 2 days a week is too little for me. I want to make physical efforts with weights at least 3 times a week.
But overall I was very satisfied with the training. It is for this reason that I thought about whether an average day could be included between the two training sessions, in which some other exercises would be performed that would put more strain on the unaffected muscle groups.

 

[Xcal]

. I don't know if it's worth doing if you don't train something else

this is a good question! I'm waiting for some expert answers

I chose to do this program for a +-8 week cycle because I want to improve my overhead KB work and step to 24kg on my way to my goal of dominating the 32kg. I still haven't decided wether to move to dbl KB before or after upgrading to 32kg. Let me own the 24kg then I can tackle my question

I run and KB, but no other formal/structured/group activity. I'm always ready for any activity that comes up with my friends/family/fools.

 

[rwleonard]

But overall I was very satisfied with the training. It is for this reason that I thought about whether an average day could be included between the two training sessions, in which some other exercises would be performed that would put more strain on the unaffected muscle groups.

FWIW: In addition to two LCC&J days, I get in a couple of rucks (one about 4 hours, the other about 2) and do Easy Strength style trap bar deads, push ups, and pull ups/rows. I am old and far from a beast, and have no problem with that additional load.

 

[SteveR]

In the article comments, Pavel wrote: "Yes to 3 days a week if you do not have excessive demands elsewhere (e.g., BJJ practice). Simply make the middle day easier, 60-80% duration of the first day."

 

[Bauer]

I tried this workout on Monday because I hadn't trained like this and I was curious how it would feel. C+J with KB20. I had no problem doing 30 reps on each arm in 30 minutes. With one hand at the start of the minute and with the other after the 30 seconds have elapsed. I sweated a lot, but I'm far from tired according to the speaking test. However, this program is designed for BJJ athletes who also have a primary occupation in their sport. I don't know if it's worth doing if you don't train something else. Also, 2 days a week is too little for me. I want to make physical efforts with weights at least 3 times a week.
But overall I was very satisfied with the training. It is for this reason that I thought about whether an average day could be included between the two training sessions, in which some other exercises would be performed that would put more strain on the unaffected muscle groups.

Fair question.

In my mind, this is exactly why it is worth pursuing: You get a lot out of it, without burning out. There is a nice paragraph in the manual from the product, where Pavel stresses that 70-80% is the goldilocks zone of effort. Just read the original report by @don fannucci in this thread, and let this carry you for a while until you see your own results.

I am with you that twice per week strength training is not enough for me. Personally, I have opted not to add a third LCCJ day, but to avoid diminishing returns and rather add 1 day of Iron Cardio + 2-3 days of regular cardio -- always prioritizing LCCJ work, if recovery or time are limited.

I like that Clean, Press and Squat (Iron Cardio) mirrors the LCCJ, but slower and with more ROM, giving me some specialized variety and change of pace.

PS: As you had no problems getting to 30 minutes, wait till you meet the stop signs in one of the steps. Those sessions are not easy at all.

 

[Dydo]

In the article comments, Pavel wrote: "Yes to 3 days a week if you do not have excessive demands elsewhere (e.g., BJJ practice). Simply make the middle day easier, 60-80% duration of the first day."

So, for example, you will not train Monday and Thursday, but let's say Monday, Wednesday (60-80% with what you did the previous training) and Friday or Sunday, Tuesday and Thursday, etc.

 

[Pete L]

I started this on 1 July (2 sessions per week). The first session was 16kg C+J every 45 seconds. my HR really coped well (under Maf/talk test/green zone HR). The second session was similar. For the 3rd session: I added a clean with with 24kg every 2or3 sets and the 16kg was mostly C+J+J. Yesterday's (4th) session was every 30s but WOW, I quickly realized that the extra 15s is a huge difference to recovery! so I updated my session on the fly:
1. warmup= planned Goblet squats and halos (+- 5 min)
2. 2 rounds of E30s 16 KG C+J+C. realized that I was not ready for this!
3. 2 rounds of E30s 16 KG C+J -> failed talk test
4. rest of a minute
5. 4 rounds of E30s 24KG Clean
6. rest of 2 minutes although it about 1min when my HR dropped well bellow Maf/talktest/blue zone. I just thought i'd take it easy for another session or 3.
7. 4 rounds of E30s 16kg C+J
rinse repeat 4 rounds of e30s swapping between 16kg/24kg for a total of 30 minutes, then walked around to cool-off

this is not the approach as written, but I think I benefit because I had sufficient quantity and quality. This pushes me to the edge (failing talk test) but pause for 2minutes and attack again with full strength. My next session will either: shorten those 2min rests; or extend to 40 minutes; or make it 6 rounds E30s before the 1or2min rest. I will judge as I go along.

How far have you got with the C+J E30s 16 kg?

 

[Pete L]

I tried this workout on Monday because I hadn't trained like this and I was curious how it would feel. C+J with KB20. I had no problem doing 30 reps on each arm in 30 minutes. With one hand at the start of the minute and with the other after the 30 seconds have elapsed. I sweated a lot, but I'm far from tired according to the speaking test. However, this program is designed for BJJ athletes who also have a primary occupation in their sport. I don't know if it's worth doing if you don't train something else. Also, 2 days a week is too little for me. I want to make physical efforts with weights at least 3 times a week.
But overall I was very satisfied with the training. It is for this reason that I thought about whether an average day could be included between the two training sessions, in which some other exercises would be performed that would put more strain on the unaffected muscle groups.

I'm currently combining with KED I 2 day schedule.
So Mon & Thu LCCJ
Tue & Fri deadlift
Five weeks in I'm feeling OK. But switched the order as DLs left me tired for kickboxing.

 

[Xcal]

How far have you got with the C+J E30s 16 kg?

It seems to me that I can do 3 sets of C+J and recover <134bpm (my Maf and talk test are about here). I started the 4th set at +-136 bpm, and it goes off-track from there. Then I took a 2 min break and able to repeat it almost exactly as described but 24kg Clean -> 4 sets +2min rest -> exactly the same HR results -> and I swapped between the 16/24 for each cycle of sets for a total of 5 cycles. here is my HR report (the first 5 min was warmup). my gut feeling is that it was day 1 after 2 weeks of every-45s so my body had a shock, and I will quickly extend from 3 to many E30 sets before failing the talk test....actually, I've been doing every 45s for a very long time on various tricks (e.g. 8 x 24kg swings E45 on the easier days...10x1H for 100swings untimed = the moderate days).

edit: I do try to jerk with the 24kg, but only get to Jeeeerrrr the KB bounces up a few inches from my rack postion and have not yet tried to power it up with my arm like a strict press.

 

[Pete L]

It seems to me that I can do 3 sets of C+J and recover <134bpm (my Maf and talk test are about here). I started the 4th set at +-136 bpm, and it goes off-track from there. Then I took a 2 min break and able to repeat it almost exactly as described but 24kg Clean -> 4 sets +2min rest -> exactly the same HR results -> and I swapped between the 16/24 for each cycle of sets for a total of 5 cycles. here is my HR report (the first 5 min was warmup). my gut feeling is that it was day 1 after 2 weeks of every-45s so my body had a shock, and I will quickly extend from 3 to many E30 sets before failing the talk test....actually, I've been doing every 45s for a very long time on various tricks (e.g. 8 x 24kg swings E45 on the easier days...10x1H for 100swings untimed = the moderate days). View attachment 22017

edit: I do try to jerk with the 24kg, but only get to Jeeeerrrr the KB bounces up a few inches from my rack postion and have not yet tried to power it up with my arm like a strict press.

So something clicked for me today.
The past two sessions were 14 sets and 16 sets or 7 and 8 minutes duration. I even noted that I might not be able to progress further with two long cycles.
Today I hit 30 sets. So jumped from 16 to 30.
I'm not sure if something happened respiratory wise but I found my rhythm.
For certain the jerk was coming from my legs.
Do you have a lighter bell. Can you get the necessary reps with the 16 kg? It should be a 6 to 12 rep max bell.
If you're failing the talk test after three reps that is after your second set with your left arm. Is that right?
My suggestion would be practice your jerk form.
Or consider just one clean every 30 seconds on the 30 seconds.

 

[DrFierce]

However, this program is designed for BJJ athletes who also have a primary occupation in their sport. I don't know if it's worth doing if you don't train something else. Also, 2 days a week is too little for me. I want to make physical efforts with weights at least 3 times a week.

I started a month ago expressly for this reason-- It's summertime, so I want to paddleboard, swim, hike, run as much as I want and still be able to recover. Nice to have a lower commitment program this season.