"The Best All-Around Training Method EVER"- 6 months in, I'd say YES!!!!!

[Ben Strong]

Question for @don fannucci and everyone else who is deep into this program: how do you feel after each set? I was doing the program as written and I wasn't feeling anything. I switched to a 5x5 twice a week and now I feel a lot (in a good way). I do 5x5 every 3:30 seconds, so I get a long rest. I do 5 reps with double 24, and when I put them down, I feel like I've just run a sprint. Then, after the long rest, I feel ready for another one. I feel warm, mobile, and juiced up during and after this workout. Later in the day, I have a nice spring in my step, but I get beat up if I do the two sessions too close to each other.

I'm wondering what effect this should have over the long term and how it might compare and contrast with the program does.

Interestingly, I have been running the Giant 1.0 and 1.1 and this is about the work rest ratio that I naturally gravitate towards when following the autoregulation signs. Seems to be working wonders for me so far.

 

[Anth]

Interestingly, I have been running the Giant 1.0 and 1.1 and this is about the work rest ratio that I naturally gravitate towards when following the autoregulation signs. Seems to be working wonders for me so far.

That's interesting. I always felt pressure to do more work with the Giant. You rest that long huh? For 30 minutes?

 

[Ben Strong]

That's interesting. I always felt pressure to do more work with the Giant. You rest that long huh? For 30 minutes?

Yeah, if I'm understanding your comment correctly. I typically do a set and then rest based on the autoregulation parameters. But I put a timer on just for fun and it usually shakes out between 3-5 minutes of rest in between sets depending on the rep count for the day with an average somewhere between 3.5-4 minutes. I could probably do a little more work in that time frame but I find with the higher rep sets that this rest period works well for me personally.

As an aside, I have been including some 2H swings on my some of my off days using A+A parameters. Usually around 5 or 6 reps and EMOM for 10-15 minutes. This is more of a supplement to the Giant stuff so I try to keep it kind of tame. I feel like this has a really low recovery cost so it doesn't seem to impact me much as far as getting the Giant done. But the extra ballistic work seems to be helping with increasing overall calories burned.

 

[Anth]

Yeah, if I'm understanding your comment correctly. I typically do a set and then rest based on the autoregulation parameters. But I put a timer on just for fun and it usually shakes out between 3-5 minutes of rest in between sets depending on the rep count for the day with an average somewhere between 3.5-4 minutes. I could probably do a little more work in that time frame but I find with the higher rep sets that this rest period works well for me personally.

As an aside, I have been including some 2H swings on my some of my off days using A+A parameters. Usually around 5 or 6 reps and EMOM for 10-15 minutes. This is more of a supplement to the Giant stuff so I try to keep it kind of tame. I feel like this has a really low recovery cost so it doesn't seem to impact me much as far as getting the Giant done. But the extra ballistic work seems to be helping with increasing overall calories burned.

When you put the bells down after doing a set of of 8, for example, how do you feel? When I do a set of 8 with double 20s, I feel like I've just done a sprint.

Edit: I am doing clean and jerks, not clean and press.

 

[Ben Strong]

When you put the bells down after doing a set of of 8, for example, how do you feel? When I do a set of 8 with double 20s, I feel like I've just done a sprint.

Edit: I am doing clean and jerks, not clean and press.

I would say when I do a set of 8 C&P, that it I don't quite feel like I have done a sprint. However, as you pointed out I am doing C&P, not C&J. When I have played around with C&J in the past I do feel like I have done a sprint after high rep sets of that movement. Must be the additional explosive component. To me, the effect of double C&P on the body feels a lot like any compound barbell movement would.

 

[don fannucci]

today set an all time Personal best with a 1 Hand Clean and Jerk w/ a 115lb dumbell
RPE was about a 7

also got the beast with my left hand, which is a significant accomplishment after a neck injury in 2017

and i've been focusing on easy volume- mixing a lot of rounds of 1 and 2 and the occasional 3- this keeps me fresh but i am still stunned at how many qualities continue to improve all at once

 

[Tom Flint]

i am still stunned at how many qualities continue to improve all at once

This thread has been an extremely inspiring read, and this line really sums up what is so inspiring about it.

It's been so inspiring, in fact, that a few weeks ago I decided to jump in and run the program myself for the first time - despite having bought it right when it came out. I'm on Plan A with the single-arm LCCJ (currently sitting at C+J+C+J for 30 mins with the 32kg while I establish my baseline) and I have to say that I am absolutely loving these sessions. I never feel winded and I feel fantastic for the rest of the day.

I have good work capacity so I'm structuring my weeks like this with great results:

Mon - KBSF
Tues - Tactical Barbell (Operator template: Incline BP, BB front squat, weighted pull-ups - taking a break from DL atm)
Wed - Hill sprints (15 secs with c.2 mins rest)
Thurs - TB
Fri - KBSF
Sat - TB
Sun - MAF air bike Fobbit session 45 min (alternating sets of dips and rows every 3 mins)

I also walk the hills between home and work every day for around 90 minutes.

This structure really seems to tick all the boxes and it never seems like I'm pushing recovery.

@don fannucci I'm really intrigued by the way you've structured the program according to your preferences, and right out of the gate it seems. I actually feeling torn between following the program as it's laid out versus imitating what you've done with such encouraging outcomes. What made you change it up from the beginning?

 

[don fannucci]

"What made you change it up from the beginning?"

i did Q and D a few years ago- i'm intrigued by the concept of waviness- the goal is practice as far as i can tell and the waviness allows practice across a number of dimensions- high volume if you throw in a lot of 3s, or high weights if you focus on singles... i also remember reading about motor learning across different dimensions (i.e. the value of practicing with "lower" weights and focusing on speed, which should help motor unit recruitment, or higher weights to do the same but different, making the lower weights feel easier)

in 2009 i made a serious run at Kenneth Jays Viking Warrior- i did pretty well on it- but man was it HARD- like mind-bendingly difficult- and therefore not sustainable over the long term- see pavel's SF WOD article for the best explanation of what i'm aiming for

the accumulation of practice- volume, heavy weights, heart rate/mitochondrial training all while modulating fatigue and allowing for high levels of enthusiasm with every workout (also each workout seems well calibrated to my fatigue levels, high or low)... i think this is long term sustainable...

i've also had a chance to train with about 8 people following this kind of training- and they are all seeing the same kinds of massive gains

my 13 year old daughter (115lbs) last night got a 45lb kb over head 48 times in a 48 minute workout- and it was just a few months ago that she got the 45 for a single... now it is her "heavy" working bell... i am floored by this kind of progress... it's well within the realm of possibility that she's banging out reps with the 24kg bell in the next few weeks... which is the bell that pavel said that grown men should aspire to!

i'd love to hear from other SF experts about this kind of training

 

[Tom Flint]

"What made you change it up from the beginning?"

i did Q and D a few years ago- i'm intrigued by the concept of waviness- the goal is practice as far as i can tell and the waviness allows practice across a number of dimensions- high volume if you throw in a lot of 3s, or high weights if you focus on singles... i also remember reading about motor learning across different dimensions (i.e. the value of practicing with "lower" weights and focusing on speed, which should help motor unit recruitment, or higher weights to do the same but different, making the lower weights feel easier)

in 2009 i made a serious run at Kenneth Jays Viking Warrior- i did pretty well on it- but man was it HARD- like mind-bendingly difficult- and therefore not sustainable over the long term- see pavel's SF WOD article for the best explanation of what i'm aiming for

the accumulation of practice- volume, heavy weights, heart rate/mitochondrial training all while modulating fatigue and allowing for high levels of enthusiasm with every workout (also each workout seems well calibrated to my fatigue levels, high or low)... i think this is long term sustainable...

i've also had a chance to train with about 8 people following this kind of training- and they are all seeing the same kinds of massive gains

my 13 year old daughter (115lbs) last night got a 45lb kb over head 48 times in a 48 minute workout- and it was just a few months ago that she got the 45 for a single... now it is her "heavy" working bell... i am floored by this kind of progress... it's well within the realm of possibility that she's banging out reps with the 24kg bell in the next few weeks... which is the bell that pavel said that grown men should aspire to!

i'd love to hear from other SF experts about this kind of training

That all makes perfect sense. Thanks for elucidating!

The progress you've described in these youngsters - as well as you and the other adults - is really astounding.

Personally, I might get a better feel for the protocol as written for a little while longer but you've talked me into 'breaking free' in the not-too-distant future.

Looking forward to seeing more progress updates from you!