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Kettlebell The Kettlebell Snatch

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North Coast Miller
if we are speaking about loads that can only be done 3-5 reps max then we are talking about Olympic lifting and Powerlifting...
KBs may fit that criteria for some but the Barbell etc.. can become a better choice for "max" loading
 
I'm with you 100%.

There are some KB movements that can be done in this manner for sure, but once you get into ballistics is dicey, and HS snatches at that level of loading I'm just gonna watch.
 
10 years ago - hard to believe!

Thank you
 
Hello,

Brett Jones said:
if we are speaking about loads that can only be done 3-5 reps max then we are talking about Olympic lifting and Powerlifting...
KBs may fit that criteria for some but the Barbell etc.. can become a better choic
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I do agree with that. However, the heavy kettlebell version work on anti-twist. Is it more or less the same logic than the 1h swing with a slightly lighter version than a two arm swing ?

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
I read somewhere in the book Classical Kettlebell Lifting by Steve Matthews about the needs for most people being between the power efficiency/endurance of girevoy sport and the maximum power output of hardstyle. Seemed about right.
 
pet' said:
I do agree with that. However, the heavy kettlebell version work on anti-twist. Is it more or less the same logic than the 1h swing with a slightly lighter version than a two arm swing ?
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I think the anti-rotational challenge is greater with a heavy 1-arm swing than it is for a heavy (but slightly lighter than swing) 1-arm snatch. If that's what you're asking. But yes it would be more anti-twist than with a barbell, or a double kettlebell snatch.

On the subject of barbell vs. kettlebell for challenging weight, I'm thinking that the barbell allows a greater weight to be moved by prime movers with less of a stabilization demand, as compared with the kettlebell. (I say this only having done maybe 30 barbell snatches in my life. Never got to a very challenging weight, but enough to at least know what the movement is.) So in that respect, as Brett says, barbell is a better choice for "max" loading. But that doesn't mean one can't max load a kettlebell snatch... it's just a different max, same as with a "barbell vs. kettlebell" press, deadlift, or squat.

LoneRider said:
I read somewhere in the book Classical Kettlebell Lifting by Steve Matthews about the needs for most people being between the power efficiency/endurance of girevoy sport and the maximum power output of hardstyle. Seemed about right.
Click to expand...

I agree, and I like the way he describes it in that book. So far I like hardstyle, and haven't tired of experimenting with that yet. But maybe GS is in my future. :)
 
@Anna C one thing with a technical movement like a snatch is when at maximal loads progression comes very slowly - microloading is easier with a barbell in my mind, but then maybe a KB snatch isnt quite as technical as its more like a power snatch.
 
I agree, and I like the way he describes it in that book. So far I like hardstyle, and haven't tired of experimenting with that yet. But maybe GS is in my future. :)
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@Anna C, regarding the GS vs HS I recalled a discussion I had with a friend of mine regarding their merits for military service (both of us are active duty). It boiled down to both being useful in different ways for military service.

Hardstyle training addresses the higher intensity side of military service (combatives, movement under fire, etc...) where as GS, with power efficiency focus, is great for things like foot marching (carrying a rucksack in excess of 55 lbs or more for miles would certainly require power endurance).

I retain the stance, though, that any kettlebell neophyte is best served starting Hardstyle and once achieving the Simple standard from S&S sorting out where to go from there.
 
Hello,

Anna C said:
For example, I snatch the 24kg for power and strength, up to 10 per set, but usually 5 per set. It is the heaviest bell I can snatch with good technique. I snatch the 16kg for endurance, up to (my PR) 211 reps in 10 min without setting the bell down
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I use more or less the same principle. Related to my bdw (60-61), I use the 20 for the snatch test. So, I work relatively light for endurance and good pace. I reach 28, so pretty close to 1/2 bdw for a few rep, to work on power only.

Anna C said:
On the subject of barbell vs. kettlebell for challenging weight, I'm thinking that the barbell allows a greater weight to be moved by prime movers with less of a stabilization demand, as compared with the kettlebell. (I say this only having done maybe 30 barbell snatches in my life. Never got to a very challenging weight, but enough to at least know what the movement is.) So in that respect, as Brett says, barbell is a better choice for "max" loading. But that doesn't mean one can't max load a kettlebell snatch... it's just a different max, same as with a "barbell vs. kettlebell" press, deadlift, or squat.
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I could not agree more.

I do not have access to barbell. So my "only option" (but such a worthy one :) ) is to snatch very heavy. I like the anti-twist work. Even if I admit I load less, the anti twist works more on my coordination. I feel like I "move better" after anti-twist training. Maybe to a certain extent, my body considers it more "functional" or matches better with what it needs.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
Steve Freides said:
Beast snatches, preceded by Beast juggling, are in here, and the whole thing is less than a minute and a half long.
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Awesome. The one handed flip and catch with 48kg is crazy. I have practiced juggling, and that seems tough to me.

@Brett Jones in your experience, what is the hardest strength feat to achieve from that video, or that you accomplished?
 
I think this thread is the right place for my question...

Can you use a GS style in the SFG test?
The requirements only say things about the lockout, one continuous movement, etc. There's no mentioning about the specific need for a HS style.
I'm asking, because although I'm using HS in my training, when it really comes down to hitting certain numbers I'd go down the GS route -> not necessarily full GS style, but limiting the power output and tension generation (and probably other things) to the absolute bare minimum needed to bring the KB up overhead.
In my eyes limiting power and tension intentionally is no true HS anymore, hence my original question whether this is allowed in the test or not.
 
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Geoff Chafe said:
Awesome. The one handed flip and catch with 48kg is crazy. I have practiced juggling, and that seems tough to me.

@Brett Jones in your experience, what is the hardest strength feat to achieve from that video, or that you accomplished?
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Geoff
I would say the Red Nail
 
Kettlebelephant said:
I think this thread is the right place for my question...

Can you use a GS style in the SFG test?
The requirements only say things about the lockout, one continuous movement, etc. There's no mentioning about the specific need for a HS style.
I'm asking, because although I'm using HS in my training, when it really comes down to hitting certain numbers I'd go down the GS route -> not necesserily full GS style, but limiting the power output and tension generation (and probably other things) to the absolute bare minimum needed to bring the KB up overhead.
In my eyes limiting power and tension intentionally is no true HS anymore, hence my original question whether this is allowed in the test or not.
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I would need to see your technique on the KB snatch to make a judgement.
simply "dialing back" the power output doesn't make it "not hardstyle" since you need to adjust the power output to the demands
There are other aspects of GS that do not meet the criteria.
 
Kettlebelephant said:
In my eyes limiting power and tension intentionally is no true HS anymore, hence my original question whether this is allowed in the test or not.
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Let's explore this a little.

You cannot give a 100% effort on more than a few reps. The "volume control" concept, credit to @Brett Jones for this, is important. One of my favorite teaching demonstrations is to do 2h swings with weights ranging from 16 kg up to 48 kg - I try to show exactly the same form and range of motion on all weights, and can usually keep it up to about 4o kg. This works only because I am adjusting the volume control to match the weight.

We should all strive to be able to dial in the position on the volume knob appropriate to the task at hand, adjusting not only for weight but for rep count and whatever other variable may come into play. All while maintaining good StrongFirst form.

-S-
 
Steve Freides said:
You cannot give a 100% effort on more than a few reps.
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Of course that's true, but there's a difference between starting out at 100% for the first reps and end up at e.g. 60% on the last 5 reps, because of the accumulating fatigue or starting at 50% and staying there for the entire 100 reps, because 50% of your max power output is all you need to bring the KB overhead.
 
Kettlebelephant said:
Of course that's true, but there's a difference between starting out at 100% for the first reps and end up at e.g. 60% on the last 5 reps, because of the accumulating fatigue or starting at 50% and staying there for the entire 100 reps, because 50% of your max power output is all you need to bring the KB overhead.
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Yes - the ideal approach to the 100-rep snatch test is to start out with the volume control at +/- 70% and keep that level of effort throughout, from first rep to last, the last rep performed with the same everything as the first.

-S-
 
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