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Kettlebell The Red Zone (Pavel, T. Program)

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Hello,

I am soooo far from either an endurance beast or a strength beast, but yes, Red Zone and S&S pairs very well.

Basically, my currrent routine is as follows:
- S&S (Timeless Simple), 3x a week + 3x3 weighted pull ups (24kg).
- RZ, 3x a week, I just focus on getting the volume done.
- Rucking: 3-4x a week, 1h30 minimum (more if I have Time) with 60% of bodyweight.

On the top of it:
GTG: OA push ups, pistol squats,

For the moment, even if this is too soon, this gives me a great GPP but also burns a lot of calories. Then I am not sure I'll gain a lot of hypertrophy as stated in the article.

I keep S&S because I like it and consider the GU as great blend of strength and weighted mobility move. GU gives a little bit less overall strength compared to the C&P though.

To be completely honest the following is one of the best combination I know for both GPP, strength and hypertrophy:
- 100 daily swings
- C&P of RZ as prescribed

This would really be a sustainable RoP then.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
To be completely honest the following is one of the best combination I know for both GPP, strength and hypertrophy:
- 100 daily swings
- C&P of RZ as prescribed

This would really be a sustainable RoP then
Yes, or even just a set time (or waving time) for press ladders (with 100 swings in between), waving the intensity like RoP (H-L-M). You could milk a bell all the way from (1,2,3) @ 5RM to (2,3,5) @ 8-10RM with something like that.
 
@Pet @Sean M.... Have you guys ever considered another form of ladders mentioned in the original Pavel book..."The Russian Kettlebell Challenge"..... Do a set of 5 with 16s, then 5 with 24s, then 5 with 32s and that constitutes one ladder. Do three to five ladders like that. Adjust weights accordingly. Just food for thought.
 
Hello,

@John Grahill
No I never tried. I try to stick with the program in terms of volume and intensity. It calls for all the sets with the same weight. Nonetheless, I like the idea of different weights in function of the sets.

For a while, and using bodyweight, I used something similar, which was a regression of push ups (OAOL, then OA, then feet elevated, etc...). It works well with progressively lighter weights for pull ups or loaded pistol squats. This strategy worked well to build up volume without burning out.

I am mostly after GPP, so I am always very careful with recovery. Unfortunately, progressively heavier weights from set to set taxes me more so I need more time to recover.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
@Pet @Sean M.... Have you guys ever considered another form of ladders mentioned in the original Pavel book..."The Russian Kettlebell Challenge"..... Do a set of 5 with 16s, then 5 with 24s, then 5 with 32s and that constitutes one ladder. Do three to five ladders like that. Adjust weights accordingly. Just food for thought.
I’ve seen that, but I can’t do 32kg for 5 (yet). But, if you have a wide selection of bells in 4kg increments, I’m sure it’s more effective than just manipulating volume with one bell.
 
Red Zone looks like a very good, basic program. My one question would be how to progress in weight on C & P. In Rite of Passage, as I understand it, you work up to 5 Ladders/75 reps, then start all over again with a heavier KB. In the Red Zone, you start at 50 reps and stay there. So how do you know when to try and move up in weight? Do you just wait until the 50 reps feel relatively easy and then shoot for a heavier weight?
 
Hello,

@NormanOsborn
The program calls for a deload week on the 4th week.

From instinct, I would do 2 complete cycles, then I would test the max. If it increased, then I would do it with the next bell. The good think is that you can go for the set / rep you want so you can adjust the difficulty that way.

Another option would be to set a time limit. Once you reach it, you maintain it for a while to really own the weight. Then a deload to rest. Then you can do another cycle with a shorter time limit. Then you deload. So you eventually do 2 cycles. Then you test the max, and tackle a heavier bell, with a regular time frame (or even without time limit).

I currently run the program. As always, after a while, you end up with polishing the technique which help you to be more efficient (less energy for the same amount of work).

A more clinic way to increase the weight would be to use cluster sets for strength and hypertrophy, but this would be anoter program.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
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Hello,

I do not know if other have run this program or not, so I'll do here a quick review, after 1 month.

As a reminder, the program calls for:
"Here's the routine: 5×5 presses per arm, 5×10 swings per arm, wrap up with another 5×5 presses. It's up to you whether you want to clean the kettlebell once for each set of presses or once before each rep. Don't fail. If you can't make the prescribed reps, do more sets of fewer reps to make up the total; for example 3×5, 1×4, 2×3 for a total of 25. Rest as little as you can between sets. Start with a lot lower numbers and build up slowly. Train three times a week. Stretch. Eat a cow. Every fourth week take it easy'this means do half the reps on all your sets.".

Here is the link:

I have started the program with the 24kg. The beauty of this protocol is that you can tailor the sets and reps as you want, depending on what you are trying to achieve. For instance, I like running it the aerobic fashion. That way if I can not run or ruck later in the day or week, I still get my aerobic training. Then, I prefer doing sets of 2 or 3 instead of 5 with nasal breathing. I have in general - depending on how I feel that day - at least 1 rep in the tank for each set. So I can almost do sets after sets without too much rest. The whole C&P session has to be very smooth, as if I was running.

I have done the swings using the 32kg. Indeed, this is a weight I like to work with as far as this move goes. Not too light, not too heavy, can be done daily. Doing the swings between 2 C&P portion is some kind of "refreshing". I believe that this strategy makes the program more sustainable than RoP, even considering that RZ has 150 C&P a week, which is super close to the last week of RoP (155).

This is important to really use the right weight in the first place get the most out of this program. If the weight is too light, it will turn into a conditioning session. If this is too heavy, first there is a risk of injury, and then the recovery will not be secured. Plus, it will be tough to reach the required volume so it will not trigger the desired effects.

I only did 1 cycle until now, and I do not know if I will keep going. My session is supposed to be tomorrow. Then I did not try a 1RM.

Up to this week, I have had the following training routine
- 3x a week: Red Zone
- 3x a week: Timeless Simple
- 3-4x a week: rucking (at least 1/2 bdw, most of the time "a little bit more", during at least 45 minutes, with peak up to 3h)
- Some trail running
- Construction work

So, as far as hypertrophy goes...it is what we could say "mixed feelings". I have slightly more obliques (Madame's view), but that's it. My weight have remained the same (60kg, 1,83m). I guess I should really have had to eat WAY more to get some hypertrophy from it.

As far as recovery goes, this training schedule was sustainable because I have worked from home due to the pandemic here in France. So I can get more sleep (no commuting). On a more "normal" basis, I believe that RZ per se could be considered as a very good alternative to S&S. There is no recovery issue, even during the training day, because the volume is evenly splitted on the week. There is no wave, like in RoP.

I have added pistol squats (10 each side) to keep this movement pattern. Plus I really feel this helps my rucking. Pistol also helps for the lunge part of the GU anyway.

In terms of performance, if we consider it as a base to build upon, it reminds me exactely this article:

My rucking have gone through the roof, my running have remained the same, even if I tend to run less due to the amount of rucking.

This is really a program I could recommend. For me, this is just as good as S&S.

So this is what came to my mind. I am far from an expert regarding this program. Nonetheless, if you have any questions, feel free to ask that way we can all progress !

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
Hello,

@John Grahill
Thanks for the review
You are welcome !

It seems to me to be yet another excellent minimalist program to put in the tool box!
Oh yes !

Did you notice a strength gain ? Do the clean and presses feel lighter?
As far as the 1st question goes:
I did not try a 1RM for the DL for instance. Nonetheless, yes I am stronger "overall". To a certain extent, the 24kg bell with C&P gives more overall strength and daily application than a 32kg GU.

As examples ( don't laugh):
-> I have a stone in the woods, that I hide to do carries from time to time. Last time I tried was this winter. It felt relatively heavy. This time, it felt almost "light". My lifting technique was the same.
-> I also carry plenty of stuff (debris, etc...) during my construction work (I live in the 4th floor). It transfers better to it than S&S because I carry odd objects.
-> I already did construction work with OVH position all day long, running S&S. Of course S&S helped. But C&P helps even more.

As far as your 2nd question goes, yes. I started with doubles. Now, I do with triples. So it feels both lighter and conditioning is better.

Red Zone sounds like a good alternative to S & S for a KB novice who would rather Press than TGU
In my opinion, yes because:
- The learning curve is "shorter"
- With proper technique, the weight remains lighter, so there is less risk of injury (bell which falls, etc...)
- The Clean remains a "big pull", so assuming there is a lot of volume, it pays off to increase the DL (mentioned in the WTH article of E. Frohardt)
- Provided we work on a squat (I do the pistol), it gives the "raw strength" required for the GU (basically, we "just" have to drill the technique a little)
- Sessions are short: roughly 35-40 minutes, so this is not significantly longer than S&S (usually about 35 if we go slowly)
- This is as sustainable as S&S

Obviously, I am not saying this is a better program than S&S. I am just saying that this is a perfect equivalent.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
Hello,

@John Grahill

You are welcome !


Oh yes !


As far as the 1st question goes:
I did not try a 1RM for the DL for instance. Nonetheless, yes I am stronger "overall". To a certain extent, the 24kg bell with C&P gives more overall strength and daily application than a 32kg GU.

As examples ( don't laugh):
-> I have a stone in the woods, that I hide to do carries from time to time. Last time I tried was this winter. It felt relatively heavy. This time, it felt almost "light". My lifting technique was the same.
-> I also carry plenty of stuff (debris, etc...) during my construction work (I live in the 4th floor). It transfers better to it than S&S because I carry odd objects.
-> I already did construction work with OVH position all day long, running S&S. Of course S&S helped. But C&P helps even more.

As far as your 2nd question goes, yes. I started with doubles. Now, I do with triples. So it feels both lighter and conditioning is better.


In my opinion, yes because:
- The learning curve is "shorter"
- With proper technique, the weight remains lighter, so there is less risk of injury (bell which falls, etc...)
- The Clean remains a "big pull", so assuming there is a lot of volume, it pays off to increase the DL (mentioned in the WTH article of E. Frohardt)
- Provided we work on a squat (I do the pistol), it gives the "raw strength" required for the GU (basically, we "just" have to drill the technique a little)
- Sessions are short: roughly 35-40 minutes, so this is not significantly longer than S&S (usually about 35 if we go slowly)
- This is as sustainable as S&S

Obviously, I am not saying this is a better program than S&S. I am just saying that this is a perfect equivalent.

Kind regards,

Pet'
Pet - Thanks for the excellent review. The program looks very interesting to me!
 
@pet' once again I say thank you for that review. What strikes me about this program is the simple way it is laid out for you to do. In reality, a 3x per week program, about 90 or so minutes a week which could yield pretty noticeable results for the average person. It's the kind of thing that got me interested in training with kettlebells years ago!

The explanation of how the "rock" feels now is a perfect example of an increase in everyday strength....thanks again!
 
Hello,

@PaulAllen
You are welcome !

In reality, a 3x per week program, about 90 or so minutes a week which could yield pretty noticeable results for the average person.
Yes, it works very nicely !

Another option I just thought about to keep progressing is to simply increase the weight for the 1st portion of the C&P. You simply keep your regular weight for the 2nd portion. When you feel you own this 1st portion, then you can try with the 2nd as well.

Clearly, I kept practicing S&S at the time, but this would not be sustainable with:
- A lot of other physical activities (manual labour, sport (I usually practice boxing, but due to the pandemic...))
- Sleep deprived state (regardless the reason: commuting, baby, schedule...)
- Bad nutrition: I noticed I performed better with good quality food.

So, as a stand alone, yes it is way more than enough to be "beyond average" while being fresh anytime, including the training days. If you want to be even more well rounded, you can add something low impact and aerobic (swimming, biking, rucking...). Doing so, you'd get almost the the same layout than E. Frohardt article (RoP + rucking / patrol with gear).

I also helped my HSPU, which is now way stronger.

This program is minimalist, so it is easy to adapt it to other configuration, such as a travel with little to no access to equipement:
- With a thick resistance band: pull through (it gives you the swings) + high pull (it gives you the vertical pull from the clean)
- HSPU (which gives you the press)
- A core exercise of your choice (HLR, Dragon Flags). I add the core component because the the HSPU does not work the core as much as the press does.

The article below is the reason why I use the HSPU is:
So such a volume of HSPU + core work may provide the same benefits

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
Sometimes I wish I did not have 50 or so books on training and programs. Sometimes I wish I did not have my pull-up bar or my whole set of kettlebells. Sometimes I wish I only had a 24 kB and no knowledge of any other programs than the Red Zone just to strip away everything that litters my mind and dull my brain. I just want to work out with no distractions.
 
Sometimes I wish I did not have 50 or so books on training and programs. Sometimes I wish I did not have my pull-up bar or my whole set of kettlebells. Sometimes I wish I only had a 24 kB and no knowledge of any other programs than the Red Zone just to strip away everything that litters my mind and dull my brain. I just want to work out with no distractions.
Amen, brother. That’s what got me into kettlebells. The simplicity and effectiveness. While clearly there are many exercises you can perform with them the limitations are freeing in a way. At least for a weirdo like me.
 
Hello,

Usually, carefully selected exercises can transfer quite well to others, or to daily life. This is true for S&S, RoP, RZ.

But this may come drawbacks: overspecialization. After some point, progression become way harder and can lead to diminishing returns.

So fixing the right goals in the first place is crucial. After, we can define the right program and tool

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
Hello,

Usually, carefully selected exercises can transfer quite well to others, or to daily life. This is true for S&S, RoP, RZ.

But this may come drawbacks: overspecialization. After some point, progression become way harder and can lead to diminishing returns.

So fixing the right goals in the first place is crucial. After, we can define the right program and tool

Kind regards,

Pet'

This is another way that Red Zone reminds me of Simple & Sinister; it's a GPP program that will make you stronger at pressing and pulling(Swing). It won't turn you into a monster at any specific lift or activity. But the kind of programs that do are so intensive in terms of time and recovery, they limit what else you can do. RZ or S & S can be done for an extended period of time alongside other training.
 
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