AndyGog
Level 5 Valued Member
Sounds similar to a program Pavel wrote for Gear Patrol. Military Press ladders and swings
3 Quick Total Body Workouts Recommended by the Pros
3 Quick Total Body Workouts Recommended by the Pros
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John Grahill
Level 8 Valued Member
AndyGog
Level 5 Valued Member
I'm tempted to give it a try. Having just recovered from a tweaked back doing S&S I was going to leave get ups until I've found some tuition
IMayAgainKnowChris
Level 5 Valued Member
Can’t believe Pavel was recommending sets of 25 for the swings. Not being critical. Just the first I’ve heard of anything over 10 from him. I love the 2 exercise programs.
pet'
Level 8 Valued Member
Hello,
A set of 25 swings sounds 'long' to me but why not. I guess it depends on the weight. Sometimes we see programs with sets that long (or let say in the 15-25 range) but they usually aim for pure conditioning or fat loss.
In StrongFirst, we do not see it a lot, but the Escalating Density method works super nicely as well : you pick up a weight, set a timer and do as much rep as you can in the time. From a session to another you try to do better. You manage rest as you want. I enjoy this method because it secures the training duration and I often do them with nasal breathing.
It gives a very good conditioning workout, but also develops strength. It teaches how to perform clean repetitions while fatigue is setting in.
For instance, if we want to apply it to RZ we get something like:
- 10 minutes of C&P
- 10 x 10 swings
- 10 minutes of C&P
This is quite flexible in terms of duration (we can set the time we want).
This kind of routine (RZ, etc...) work even better when performed with an aerobic activity alongside. Indeed, due to the volume and minimalism the body adapts extremely fast and could tend to diminishing returns.
Kind regards,
Pet'
A set of 25 swings sounds 'long' to me but why not. I guess it depends on the weight. Sometimes we see programs with sets that long (or let say in the 15-25 range) but they usually aim for pure conditioning or fat loss.
In StrongFirst, we do not see it a lot, but the Escalating Density method works super nicely as well : you pick up a weight, set a timer and do as much rep as you can in the time. From a session to another you try to do better. You manage rest as you want. I enjoy this method because it secures the training duration and I often do them with nasal breathing.
It gives a very good conditioning workout, but also develops strength. It teaches how to perform clean repetitions while fatigue is setting in.
For instance, if we want to apply it to RZ we get something like:
- 10 minutes of C&P
- 10 x 10 swings
- 10 minutes of C&P
This is quite flexible in terms of duration (we can set the time we want).
This kind of routine (RZ, etc...) work even better when performed with an aerobic activity alongside. Indeed, due to the volume and minimalism the body adapts extremely fast and could tend to diminishing returns.
Kind regards,
Pet'
watchnerd
Level 8 Valued Member
NormanOsborn
Level 5 Valued Member
Warm up for what, exactly?
watchnerd
Level 8 Valued Member
pet'
Level 8 Valued Member
Hello,
@watchnerd
Do you mean you do all RZ (50 press +100 swings) as a warm up ? You are a machine !
Out off curiosity, what weight do you use ?
Kind regards,
Pet'
@watchnerd
Do you mean you do all RZ (50 press +100 swings) as a warm up ? You are a machine !
Out off curiosity, what weight do you use ?
Kind regards,
Pet'
watchnerd
Level 8 Valued Member
Yes, all of it.
Only 20 kg if doing it as a warm up, the same weight a an empty barbell.
Using an empty barbell is pretty common to use in weightlifting for warmups (snatches, overhead squats, presses, jerks), so it's not really any different from what one normally does, just unilateral.
If it was heavier, I might qualify as a machine.
watchnerd
Level 8 Valued Member
Yeah, that's inconsistent with the hardstyle emphasis on power and explosiveness.
After that, might was well start branching out into kettlebell sport....
John Grahill
Level 8 Valued Member
In fairness, some of these articles about Pavel and his recommendations/teachings are several years old. I don't remember which writing from him it was but at one point he did indicate that the philosophies and training methods of SF were very dynamic and constantly being reviewed and updated. I've paraphrased that but it gives the general idea.
pet'
Level 8 Valued Member
Hello,
I agree with @John Grahill
From a general standpoint I tend to prefer principles of training than anything else. We can always adapt principles.
Nonetheless everyone is different. As far as presses goes, some folks will not tolerate well RoP but will reap more benefits from S&T for instance (less volume)
Kind regards,
Pet'
I agree with @John Grahill
From a general standpoint I tend to prefer principles of training than anything else. We can always adapt principles.
Nonetheless everyone is different. As far as presses goes, some folks will not tolerate well RoP but will reap more benefits from S&T for instance (less volume)
Kind regards,
Pet'
mico76
Level 5 Valued Member
Also in the HIRT hypertrophy program there are series of 25 swings that author Craig Marker calls "The Burn". In my opinion the key point is the rest time, in the HIRT program there are 10 minutes between one set of swings and the other, in these 10 minutes you perform presses. In Pavel's program there are 3 minutes of recovery, which however are not few.
pet'
Level 8 Valued Member
Hello,
In the HIRT, there are also less pressing volume. As far as volume goes, RZ is very close to ROP.
IMO RZ can almost be considered as the 'father' of RoP. One can clearly improve overall strength, pressing strength, gpp and to a certain extent body composition using either RoP or RZ. HIRT is more on the hypertrophy side of the spectrum (which is not bad obviously !). They are 2 different philosophies and goals.
If one wants to do heavy C&P, 2 to 3 times a week, with some conditioning alongside, HICT (High Intensity Continous Training) may be worth considering:
- one wants to do sets of 2-3 (so the 5RM is good)
- we do one set, breathe a few seconds (aerobic recovery)
- repeat the process 20-30 minutes
HR has to be roughly around 150. Rest the bare minimum and aim to reduce it overtime. If form gets suboptimal, rest longer
Reps have to be crisp and powerful and very clean.
Kind regards,
Pet'
In the HIRT, there are also less pressing volume. As far as volume goes, RZ is very close to ROP.
IMO RZ can almost be considered as the 'father' of RoP. One can clearly improve overall strength, pressing strength, gpp and to a certain extent body composition using either RoP or RZ. HIRT is more on the hypertrophy side of the spectrum (which is not bad obviously !). They are 2 different philosophies and goals.
If one wants to do heavy C&P, 2 to 3 times a week, with some conditioning alongside, HICT (High Intensity Continous Training) may be worth considering:
- one wants to do sets of 2-3 (so the 5RM is good)
- we do one set, breathe a few seconds (aerobic recovery)
- repeat the process 20-30 minutes
HR has to be roughly around 150. Rest the bare minimum and aim to reduce it overtime. If form gets suboptimal, rest longer
Reps have to be crisp and powerful and very clean.
Kind regards,
Pet'
John Grahill
Level 8 Valued Member
I think we talk about programs and it all comes down to what Pavel has mentioned before. Simple programming involving a push and a pull ... Obviously there are many ways to do it.
pet'
Level 8 Valued Member
Hello,
I agree. The push - pull - leg is in general very efficient if exercises are wisely chosen. However too much minimalism can lead to [over] specialization.
As D. John says, everything works...for 6 weeks. Then we can get kind of diminishing returns.
Kind regards,
Pet'
I agree. The push - pull - leg is in general very efficient if exercises are wisely chosen. However too much minimalism can lead to [over] specialization.
As D. John says, everything works...for 6 weeks. Then we can get kind of diminishing returns.
Kind regards,
Pet'
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