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Kettlebell Using a heart-rate monitor ... for the data-averse

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Paul, talk test is a good one, even though it's subjective- in fact, all these "formulas" are, at best, general guidelines. Some people will be coasting at the published number, others working way too hard, and many spot on. HRM's are very valuable to learn your own physiology under load, and the "formulas" give people a place to start. Eventually, though, everyone has to learn how their own body works and where their various zones are. This becomes easier over time if you pay attention, follow good advice, and get more experience.
 
Thanks Tom. I understand these are just general guidelines, but considering the detailed discussions in this thread about how to best use a heart rate monitor to train aerobically and what that means in terms of actual HR numbers for daily practice, I was hoping for a similar general recommendation when it comes to "test days". Anyone else care to weigh in? Al? Alistair?
 
How anyone tolerates or benefits from 'testing' themselves with glycolytic work depends on general health, general stress levels, VO2 max, etc. Formulas of doing the Max HR for your age x 80-95% can be good starting points, if you're cleared by your Doctor. Your HRmax may be higher or lower than the formula, too.

My suggestion for all newcomers to HR training is to wear the HR monitor as you work out, pay attention to how it correlates to your breathing, sweating, and perceived exertion, and write it in a log. Over a few sessions, you'll have a customized level, good until your conditioning changes. Or get on a stationary bike and spend 5-10 minutes at different levels...take notes.

Recovery is also good to monitor- how many beats your HR comes down 1 minute after work stops helps show your condition. Keep that between 20-30, and you're probably aerobic/alactic dominant. Under 10, you're probably heavily glycolytic. Also, keep track of your waking HR, before any activity- this will show how you've recovered from previous workouts, whether you're good to go again, and how hard. If that's higher than usual, take it easy. Put all this in a log, and soon you'll have the best information for you.
 
I just wanted to thank everyone who shared their advice in this thread.

I had never considered using a heart rate monitor with kettlebells.

Typical cardio always feels better when using one to stay in my appropriate range, but I didn't have a clue how to apply this to my kettlebell circuit.

Also thanks to everyone who asked the "dumb" questions, so I didn't have to.

Anyway, I'm going to start today and just wanted to share my gratitude.
 
Some great discussion! I'm a big proponent of heart rate training, perceived exertion is useful, but for many people (myself included) it's easy to work harder than you think. I'll post more thoughts later, but here are just some quick impressions.

-Everyone is different. Maffetone method may be spot on for some, and may not be for others. Heart Rate Reserve is another option, the nice thing about that method is that it takes into account both maximum heart rate and resting.

-However, at the end of the day they're all pretty similar. My Maffetone max is 155, 80%HRMax is 156 and 70%HRR is 154. Now, if people have drastically different resting heart rates or maximum heart rates than similarly aged athletes they might have different values.

-In terms of swings HR monitor is most useful for gauging recovery for between sets. As with HR caps there's no perfect number; it's most important to stay consistent. I like twice resting heart rate.

-Experiment. Maybe start with a cap based on one of the aforementioned formulas. Stick with that and see how you feel. If you're progressing well, keep going. If you're feeling recovered, but that you're not increasing as quickly as you might want then increase the intensity a bit.

-HR monitors are also fantastic for tracking recovery. Monitoring resting heart rate is an okay start; in general if you are increasing your cardiovascular fitness and recovering then your resting heart rate will decrease over time. However, even better than that is tracking heart rate variability (HRV). I am a recent convert to tracking HRV, and so far it seems like it's doing a great job monitoring stress.

-HR monitors are a great way to help learn about your body. How controlled diaphragmatic breathing can lower heart rate during exercise, and how a forceful "kime" while swinging can jack up the intensity.

-If you're anaerobically dominant it's going to be really, really frustrating when you start focusing on training the aerobic system. As others have said, you'll probably have to walk while running in hilly areas, you'll have to do fewer reps of swings, and you'll have to take longer breaks. Keep at it. The aerobic system does not improve quickly, but once you start retraining your heart you will reap some pretty great benefits.
 
Pavel, It's been a busy summer for me. A bit of traveling and a lot of coaching. And, been focusing my own training on endurance so have spent most of my reading time on that.
 
Andy,

Your point on perceived exertion is interesting. Having experimented with HRM for a few months I am convinced that my own perceived exertion is entirely down to loading of individual muscles and has little to do with my cardiovascular system at all.

As an example I perceive 2 handed swings with a 32kg bell to be easier than 1 handed swings but my heart rate will peak far higher. Presumably my body compensates for easier perceived exertion by putting more power into the swings?
 
Andy, you open up a whole new can of worms with this heart rate reserve thing. But, I have wondered how it makes sense with the 180-age formula for a 65 year old man who has always taken care of himself and is in great shape, and has a very low resting heart rate. Surely that counts for something.

Should resting heart rate be taken while sitting calmly, standing calmly, or what? It makes a big difference.

my Maffetone Max is 180-53 + 5 = 132 (I get an extra 5 beats for being good.)

If I take my resting HR as 60 (could be lower depending on the conditions I take it) my 75% hrr is 140. Those 8 beats make a huge difference.

The two biggest questions are the conditions one takes resting heart rate, and the % of reserve heart rate one can train while remaining aerobic.

Other question, is the Maffetone formula still more accurate for staying aerobic?

Thanks for stirring the pot. We had this all worked out before you came along.
 
Hi all. Great thread chock full of interesting information. I just wanted to chime in to let those who aren't aware know that there are alternatives to the annoying chest mounted HR monitors from Polar, Garmin etc.

I have been using a wrist based device from Scosche called a Rhythm +. It uses light and optical sensors like the Apple Watch and the index finger monitor used by doctors. Using Bluetooth tech you have it send data to a phone, a jawbone or Fitbit, etc.

I could never get comfy doing a swing with a chest mount but you can put these new ones on either arm, your calf or anywhere where it will be able to detect blood flow. It's infinitely more convenient in my experience and I imagine it might be even more handy for strong women.

Anywho back to the science talk....
 
Jeffrey - this may be useful for you:

http://philmaffetone.com/resting-heart-rate/
 
All,

I've been receiving emails linking to this thread asking for my input and I feel I have to explain my absence: among the other of life's interruptions, I get paid a lot of money to coach folks through this protocol. Posting details here, I think, is almost a breach of the confidence of those relationships.

That said, Andy is right on. The best way to ensure that you are remaining mostly aerobic is by how you feel the rest of the day, and over time. If you feel like dogshit, you ran it too high. This too, however, is confounded by youth... it takes a bit of time to feel the negative effects of running it too high if you're still in your 20s.
 
Karl, Most of my experience with heart rate comes from standard endurance training, I generally do not use it for strength training because it's not as relevant. Kettlebell ballistics however can be a sort of hybrid area. As for your example, you are spot on about the power production in 2A vs 1A swings. As Pavel has talked about before you get more power production from 2A swings. Since your body is producing more power your heart needs to pump more blood.

A more drastic example of this comes from contrasting the strict press with the jerk. Now, strict pressing a kettlebell is much more difficult than jerking a same size bell. However, since the jerk requires a strong leg drive, a ballistic thrust, and a second dip it requires a lot more energy, so heart rate will be higher even though you may be able to get many more reps with the same weight.

Jeffrey, that does count for something, and is why for individuals I much prefer HRR over Maffetone (though for many younger people like myself it ends up being pretty much the same). Max heart rate and resting heart rate are very relevant for determining zones.

Resting heart rate should be taken lying in bed first thing in the morning. You can either keep your heart rate monitor next to your bed, or just use a stopwatch. I recommend measuring for a full minute to get a more precise reading.

A step up from measuring resting heart rate is measuring heart rate variability, which helps to determine your parasypathetic/sympathetic balance. It's a topic that has a whole lot written on it, and I would not do justice by trying to summarize.


A couple pages ago there was talk about heart rate during get ups. Get ups are an incredibly hard to classify exercise for a number of reasons, but chief among them is the fact that it's a dynamic-static movement. This makes heart rate very hard to reliably gauge. During static efforts heart rate and blood pressure take a large spike. This is because muscle lengths do not change during static exercises, so there is a prolonged contraction. This prolonged contraction doesn't allow for blood to flow into the working muscle which causes an increase in metabolic byproducts.


A few more thoughts. Exercising the glycolytic pathways is not inherently bad. What is bad when you are constantly using that pathway and putting your body into a constant fight or flight mode. Most people need more aerobic improvements than anaerobic, but once you begin improving your cardiovascular system working in some higher intensities can be of great benefit.

Higher intensity anaerobic work has a number of benefits, it helps improve power output, causes muscle damage, and elevates testosterone/growth hormones. But it needs to be done smartly and sparingly.

This is where something like an easy, medium, and hard system works very nicely. Here is an example of how I might apply that to 10x10 swings using HRR.

First step: figure out zones for heart rate reserve. A couple years back I did a series of vo2max tests in a laboratory, and the max heart rate I achieved on those was 196, so we will use that as my max. My resting heart rate has averaged at about 54 so that will be my resting rate. Plug it all in to get HRR= 70%(196-54)+54= 153.4. So, that will be my aerobic cap.

Less math version: http://www.digifit.com/heartratezones/training-zones.asp

On easy days I will use a cap of 153, and allow full recovery (I like to use twice resting heart rate, so in this example it would be 108. If halfway through the workout I find that I'm getting too close to the cap or going over then it's time to drop down in weight or in reps.

Medium days: Still keeping a cap of 70%HRR (153 bpm), but not allowing for complete recovery. In this case beginning each interval when my heart rate has dropped to 50%HRR (124 bpm). The same amount of work will be accomplished, but the average heart rate will be higher and the work will be done in less time (higher workout density).

Hard days: on these days there will be no heart rate cap. Weight or reps may be increased to increase the level of exertion. However, we still want to recover between efforts so sets will only be started when heart rate has fallen below 50%HRR (124 bpm).

Now, if you really wanted to focus on endurance training the protocol could be adjusted for that. You would do the same thing as the easy day, but you would not stick to 10 reps or 10 sets. Simply set a timer and go. Swing until your heart rate begins to approach the cap, and then rest until your heart rate hits the minimum. As you fatigue the reps would slowly decrease, and the rest between rounds would increase. At the end of however long you went (say 30 minutes) you would record however many total reps you got. The goal would to over time increase the density of your workout, and then eventually the length.

Just a quick overview of a possible way to organize training using swings and HRR zones. It's a very brief description, so let me know if you have any questions.
 
Andy,

Thanks, very clear explanation of how to apply heavy, medium and light concept to heart rate zones. I really like the idea of the timer work and seeing measurable improvements over time, sort of like a MAF test with kettlebells. I will have a think about how to apply it to the RoP training plan.

Al - completely understand, you absolutely have a right to make a living out of your expertise and your paying clients should get the greatest benefits. You and the other SFG instructors are already more than generous with your advice (which is why the forum is so useful).
 
Let's look at two different scenarios using heart rate reserve.

Let's say I want to train at 75% HRR

Age 53
Max HR = 220-53 = 167

Resting HR = 65
HRR = 167-65 = 102
75% of 102 = 77
Train at HR = 65+77 = 142

Resting HR = 55
HRR = 167-55 = 112
75% of 112 = 84
Train at HR = 55+84 = 139

By this methodology I could train at a higher HR if my resting HR was 65 as compared to 55. In general, people think that resting HR is lower for a well conditioned athlete, yet it results in a lower allowable training heart rate to stay within the desired training zone.

What's up with that?
 
Jeffrey, because your heart is much stronger and more conditioned in the second example. Stroke volume is much greater at rest and so it is also much greater during exercise. Thus, they are capable of doing more work even at a lower heart rate. You also have to take max heart rate into account, the more fit individual may have a better max heart rate.
 
If I bump it back down to 70% HRR it comes so dog gone close to 180-age + 5 that I think I will just stick with Maffetone and call it good.
 
Like I said, for most people it's about the same. It's most important to pick one, use it, and then evaluate your results.

As for what monitor, I personally like the Polar H7 monitor: http://www.amazon.com/Polar-Bluetooth-Smart-Heart-Sensor/dp/B00NOHWTO6

What's nice about it is that it's bluetooth compatible. This allows me to use it with my phone and store my results on there, and allows for easy HRV monitoring.
 
+1 on the polar - good kit - no weird fluctuations half decent software. Mine even survived a trip through the washing machine last month.
 
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