Kettlebell VWC questions

[Bret S.]

In early June I started working on VWC. The first session of the 15:15 protocol I used 16k x 7r cadence for 15 mins and stopped, my HRmax was 152 and in the red zone. I stopped for fear of going too high for my age. From there I dropped the weight to 12k to ease into the program a bit more smoothly and progressed from 6/6 to 6/26 working up to 40 mins with that weight, 80 sets x 7 reps.

Next I bumped the weight back up to 16k on 6/28 and went for 18 mins and from there with more confidence and aggression I did:
6/30 for 40 sets or 20 mins
7/2 for 48 sets or 24 mins
7/4 for 56 sets or 28 mins
7/6 for 68 sets or 34 mins
7/9 for 80 sets or 40 mins

6/30 @ 40 sets


To 7/9 @ 80 sets


Looking at the HR pattern it appears to be tighter as I progress, however today was really tough and I think perhaps I pushed it a little too hard in a short time. It felt afterward like my NS got whacked pretty hard so I have a few questions going forward..

- Should I have a 40 set back-off session and then another 80 set session to solidify my gains before moving to the next level? Or stay here awhile?

- When ready and solid @80 sets with the 16 I'm thinking the next step is to add a rep and drop the set count to 40?
That'll be 8 reps per 15 seconds x 40 sets, then start ticking sets up.

- KJ's guideline is a 20% increase per session with a back-off as needed I believe. I remember reading somewhere an increase of 8 sets (or minutes?) per week is a good progression rate. Is this more appropriate? 20% per session is a big jump?

- After reaching 80 sets with the 8 rep count I'm thinking of bumping the weight to 20k and decreasing the reps to 4 or 5, then slowly ticking up the sets first to 80 and then adding a rep and repeating the cycle to finally reach 80 sets at 8 reps with the 20k. Is this a viable strategy? I think the 16k x 9 reps x 80 sets sounds a little too panicky for me and not enjoyable...

- When does 36:36 protocol make sense to start? KJ sets the minimum at 7 reps x 80 sets but again I want to have a solid base before moving on. When doing the 36:36 protocol I assume it's 36 seconds on the same hand, then switch for the next segment, he doesn't say so in the book?.

- He said, "After several months of using the 15:15 MVO2 and the 36:36 MVO2 protocols, it could very well be time to peak your conditioning". So the idea is to gain fitness by constantly pushing to higher loads in both protocols? Ultimately higher loads is my aim as I want strength gains toos.

- At 59 years old is this risky? I want to bulletproof my shoulders, crush the SSST and get stronger in the press (I think this will help heal my shoulders as they both feel really good on this program) and ultimately move to heavy A+A snatching. As it is now my stronger shoulder won't tolerate the loads without becoming inflamed (not bad but just enough).

I've read through threads on this protocol and I feel drawn to it, kind of a gut feeling that it will get me where I want to go and I love GT as it makes me feel alive and vibrant. Any advice would be appreciated. I'll now tag some folks I know have done the program to whatever extent. Thanks much in advance. @Steve W. , @NoahMarek , @Rif , @Kettlebelephant

Edit: All commenters welcome,
Another question, I read about neck bite being an issue, I have it today, has anybody else doing the program experienced it? It's not been a problem until today.

 

[Steve W.]

@Bret S.
I don't have too much specific advice.

today was really tough and I think perhaps I pushed it a little too hard in a short time.

Sounds like a good time to back off before pushing forward again.

Should I have a 40 set back-off session and then another 80 set session to solidify my gains before moving to the next level? Or stay here awhile?

Backing off to 40 sets sounds fine. You can decide how to progress based on how you feel. When I did VWC, I started by adding sets a little at a time on a schedule, but then just started extending sessions in bigger jumps. I think a lot of it was mental, and once I got acclimated to a certain session length, I found I could go a lot longer than I thought I could.

I'd recommend a ramp of session lengths to consolidate gains, say 40, 60, then 80. See how the next 80 feels. If it's a struggle, repeat the sequence again. When the 80 is comfortable, you can add a rep and build back up, or re-do the cadence test to set your new cadence.

I think the 16k x 9 reps x 80 sets sounds a little too panicky for me and not enjoyable...

Once you get up to 9 reps per set, it gets a bit hectic. You have to pull the bell down immediately out of the lockout, and be fast out of the bottom. This can actually have a positive effect on technique, but there are a couple of pitfalls to avoid.
--You need to make sure you don't cut the lockout short of vertical, lean forward into the lockout to shorten it, or (worst of all) lean forward into the lockout to get a stretch reflex rebound into the drop (very bad news for someone with any kind of shoulder issues).
--You need to keep your bell path as short (vertical and close to the body) as possible. Initiate the drop by leaning back slightly to make space to drop the bell straight down, and get your elbow down and into your body quickly to keep the bell close. If you just stand tall and drop the bell vertically without making space, you don't get a good angle to sweep the bell into a good back swing.
--You need to be quick out of the bottom, but don't rush and mess up your timing. The tendency is to cut the back swing short, and be quicker with your hip drive. However, this is a mistake and counterproductive because you end up driving your hips forward while the bell is still moving backward, so some of your hip drive gets wasted braking the backward movement of the bell. If you are a little more patient and let the back swing complete before driving your hips forward, all the force of your hip drive goes into accelerating the bell forward. This is easier said than done because the urge to rush is hard to resist. But if you are patient and get the timing right, the bell will fly up, and you will be faster by the clock, even though it will subjectively feel slower and easier.

One of the things I didn't like about VWC was the feeling of always being in a rush. I worked up to 16kg x 80 sets x 8 reps, and then 9 reps, then went up to 24kg and worked up to, IIRC, 64 sets x 7 reps. I also had problems with sweat management. Using chalk, wrist and head sweatbands, AC in the room and fans blowing directly at me, still left me frantically toweling off the bells and my hands and reapplying chalk, while standing in a puddle of sweaty chalk goo. I just found it too frantic to enjoy.

I'm thinking of bumping the weight to 20k and decreasing the reps to 4 or 5

If I recall the book correctly, this is fewer reps than you really should be using. I believe that if the cadence test puts you at less than 6 reps, you should use a lighter bell, and 7-9 is the sweet spot for 15:15. But as a transitional strategy, I don't see anything wrong with it.

When doing the 36:36 protocol I assume it's 36 seconds on the same hand, then switch for the next segment, he doesn't say so in the book?.

That is my understanding. But I've only briefly dabbled with 36:36 and never really worked it as a program.

I stopped for fear of going too high for my age.

At 59 years old is this risky?

What is too high for your age? My understanding is that maximum heart rate varies greatly by individual. If you didn't have a heart rate monitor, would this be a concern? Not being a medical professional and never having met you, I can't assess the specific risk of any exercise program for you as an individual, but VWC does not strike me as particularly extreme, especially if you have medical clearance for exercise, listen to your body, and progress appropriately.

I've read through threads on this protocol and I feel drawn to it, kind of a gut feeling that it will get me where I want to go and I love GT as it makes me feel alive and vibrant.

These are good reasons to do any program. Probably my most important criteria for choosing any program or specific exercise is how much I enjoy it.

 

[Bret S.]

Sounds like a good time to back off before pushing forward again

Yes I believe that's good advice

I'd recommend a ramp of session lengths to consolidate gains, say 40, 60, then 80. See how the next 80 feels. If it's a struggle, repeat the sequence again.

Hadn't thought of that, great idea

If you are a little more patient and let the back swing complete before driving your hips forward, all the force of your hip drive goes into accelerating the bell forward. This is easier said than done because the urge to rush is hard to resist. But if you are patient and get the timing right, the bell will fly up, and you will be faster by the clock, even though it will subjectively feel slower and easier.

Funny you mentioned that, doing hundreds of snatches in a session makes you look for power wastage. I'm getting good at the timing of reversal as well as keeping the bell close. I've also gotten much more efficient at the sequence and timing of leg drive and bell yank timing as it's coming out of the hole and lockout timing.

I just found it too frantic to enjoy.

That's a concern for sure, anyway thanks for the feedback Steve, you're a real pro and I look to you and others on the forum far more knowledgeable and experienced than I for learning and inspiration..

 

[taikei]

I learned from Kenneth Jay directly through his lecture saying this program is specific to expand heart wall, meaning it causes hypertrophy in the heart's left ventricle to pump more volume of blood per beat.

My experience using his Boost protocol were increased VO2max and anaerobic threshold, my military press was easier. However I didn't see much benefit to the 5 minutes snatch test , probably due to the use of different energy system but this is just my gut feeling.

Seeing your age precisely a decade ahead of me and seeing the frequency of training , may be dropping training frequency to 2 or 3 times per week with VWC protocol would be a good idea, given previously mentioned hypertrophy in left ventricle comes into play and Kenneth Jay at time was only 28 years old may have not accounted for elder generations.
Last time I checked, he at the time applied to 11 swimmers and a Greco Roman wrestler to be sent to the Olympic Games.

I have done twice per week for 3 weeks, did a before and after measure of VO2Max at a triathlon gym facility. According to Kenneth at the time, the data trend was pretty much what he has expected.

 

[NoahMarek]

@Bret S. I agree with a lot of what @Steve W. said. However, I didn’t mind having sessions be a little rushed by being done on the 15s. I would say that if you are not sure, always go with a lower volume. So when increasing sets from a previous workout, my recommendation would be to not increase by more than 10% and ideally have a lower volume session before each increase.

This is not VWC as prescribed but I also did 5r on the 30s with 24kg (so like VWC with a 5r cadence) and worked up to 40 minutes (400 snatches). It depends on what your goals are as to whether you should drop reps that low. According to Kenneth, the aerobic/endurance adaptations will not be the same at a 5r cadence. However, there will obviously be an increase in overall capacity as well as good results in body comp with something like a 5r cadence.

What are your goals with this program and what are you trying to get out of it? If it is more endurance based, then I would go by the book and move onto the 36:36 once you can do an 8r cadence on the 15:15. A 9r cadence is way too fast for me so I would cap it at 8r per 15s.

 

[Bret S.]

Hello Taikei,

I learned from Kenneth Jay directly through his lecture saying this program is specific to expand heart wall, meaning it causes hypertrophy in the heart's left ventricle to pump more volume of blood per beat.

Yes he said it expands the chamber as well as thickens the chamber wall. Do you know if A+A thickens the heart wall? From what I've read the chamber expands with this method. If this is the case then my plan of using VWC to prepare my body for the heavy A+A snatching just got better.

My experience using his Boost protocol were increased VO2max and anaerobic threshold, my military press was easier. However I didn't see much benefit to the 5 minutes snatch test , probably due to the use of different energy system but this is just my gut feeling.

My plan is to eventually use the 20k bell in the 15:15 and 36:36 protocols. Being that this is my snatch test weight it seems like I would get alot stronger and more durable using it and thereby transfer more power directly to the snatch test. I figure if I can do 16 reps/min with the 20 for 40 mins it has to make the SSST easier @ 20 reps/min for 'only' 10 mins.

Seeing your age precisely a decade ahead of me and seeing the frequency of training , may be dropping training frequency to 2 or 3 times per week with VWC protocol would be a good idea, given previously mentioned hypertrophy in left ventricle comes into play and Kenneth Jay at time was only 28 years old may have not accounted for elder generations.

Yes sir, I think your right on this, I just had to test myself as in gut check. I'll drop back, not sure about 2 or 3 yet, I'll have to see which one fits in with my other training better.

I have done twice per week for 3 weeks, did a before and after measure of VO2Max at a triathlon gym facility. According to Kenneth at the time, the data trend was pretty much what he has expected.

Wow, 3 weeks and saw improvement, I guess this program works pretty well. Thanks much for the feedback. Much appreciated sir.

 

[Bret S.]

Hey Noah, thanks for getting in here..

@Bret S. I agree with a lot of what @Steve W. said. However, I didn’t mind having sessions be a little rushed by being done on the 15s. I would say that if you are not sure, always go with a lower volume. So when increasing sets from a previous workout, my recommendation would be to not increase by more than 10% and ideally have a lower volume session before each increase.

Yes I believe your right on the rate of increase, I was way too aggressive but wanted to see what I could do putting the pedal to the metal. Going forward I'll dial things back for long term survival.

This is not VWC as prescribed but I also did 5r on the 30s with 24kg (so like VWC with a 5r cadence) and worked up to 40 minutes (400 snatches). It depends on what your goals are as to whether you should drop reps that low. According to Kenneth, the aerobic/endurance adaptations will not be the same at a 5r cadence. However, there will obviously be an increase in overall capacity as well as good results in body comp with something like a 5r cadence.

This I'll have to decide as I progress and monitor things like fatigue and shoulder health.

What are your goals with this program and what are you trying to get out of it? If it is more endurance based, then I would go by the book and move onto the 36:36 once you can do an 8r cadence on the 15:15. A 9r cadence is way too fast for me so I would cap it at 8r per 15s.

My goals in order of importance:
- Shoulder and body durability
- Power endurance
- Increasing peak power output

I agree on capping reps at 8, that was my gut feeling from the start. Thanks again for the awesome feedback Noah.

One question, how far did you take this and what did you learn/gain from it?

 

[NoahMarek]

Since improving aerobic endurance/VO2max isn’t your primary goal, I think you are safe to play around with it a bit at lower rep cadences. For your primary goal of shoulder and body durability, I think lower reps would be better.

And with the 3 goals you list, A+A training sounds like the perfect fit actually. Maybe just start with something lighter than you can actually do and ease into the volume or you could alternate between VWC and A+A sessions. Al has mentioned that the magic starts to happen when the weights become heavy and for volume with these protocols but that doesn’t mean you still won’t benefit from a durability and health standpoint from starting out lighter. If you are doing VWC w/ 16kg, you should be able to use 24kg starting out for sure. Or you could just do 5r on the 30s like I chose to do if you like the VWC template (I found it fun too!).

I have read VWC 3+ times cover to cover and loved the content. However, I only did the program by the book (16kg for 7 rep cadence) up through 60 sets because I was limited by technique and my hands would get beat up. After reading it for a 3rd time, I decided to blend a couple of concepts I have learned on the forum with VWC so I did 5r on the 30s w/ 24kg and worked up to 40 minutes as I mentioned earlier. I also waved the load by about 20% every session which would be a good idea for you.

I am currently doing an A+A snatch protocol and loving that too. Snatching is definitely the best! And keep listening to your body, if you have a sharp pain in your neck, probably too much too soon or a variance from your normal technique.

 

[taikei]

Hello Taikei,

Yes he said it expands the chamber as well as thickens the chamber wall. Do you know if A+A thickens the heart wall? From what I've read the chamber expands with this method. If this is the case then my plan of using VWC to prepare my body for the heavy A+A snatching just got better.

I believe thickening the wall actually makes the chamber smaller so this would be an eccentric hypertrophy that expands towards outside and increases the volume.
It all comes to heart rate for A+A. VWC had certain percentage of max heart rate to cause the eccentric hypertrophy. If A+A doesn't reach that level, then the hypertrophy is unlikely.

As for the snatch (5 minutes, TSC, SSST), VO2Max is not the only factor that plays. Having done bunch of 5 minutes snatch test myself, basic strength is still the core builder. It's my belief that adding heavier kettlebell snatches than target weight is another thing you might be interested to do.

 

[Bret S.]

I decided to blend a couple of concepts I have learned on the forum with VWC so I did 5r on the 30s w/ 24kg and worked up to 40 minutes as I mentioned earlier. I also waved the load by about 20% every session which would be a good idea for you.

I think this is the direction I'm headed as the shoulder durability increases.

I am currently doing an A+A snatch protocol and loving that too. Snatching is definitely the best! And keep listening to your body, if you have a sharp pain in your neck, probably too much too soon or a variance from your normal technique.

I think I know what I did, I've been working on posture and holding my head in a more neutral, balanced position and was playing around with different neck /head positions while snatching. I won't be doing that again, luckily it's more of a minor annoyance than anything else.

I believe thickening the wall actually makes the chamber smaller so this would be an eccentric hypertrophy that expands towards outside and increases the volume.
It all comes to heart rate for A+A. VWC had certain percentage of max heart rate to cause the eccentric hypertrophy. If A+A doesn't reach that level, then the hypertrophy is unlikely

From the book "The increase in heart wall thickness, along with increased compliance, increased baroreceptor sensitivity, and expansion of the heart chambers, makes the kettlebell snatch special."

Are you in agreement with this passage from the book? It's one that caught my eye and got me interested in taking the program further. My question is more about the accumulated and complicated processes involved regarding MVO2 with VWC and how they compare or comport with A+A snatching. I'm very curious about this and haven't found a clear answer yet.

As for the snatch (5 minutes, TSC, SSST), VO2Max is not the only factor that plays. Having done bunch of 5 minutes snatch test myself, basic strength is still the core builder. It's my belief that adding heavier kettlebell snatches than target weight is another thing you might be interested to do.

Agreed, I can do the 5 min test pretty much any day but don't have the right stuff for the SSST yet. I will be working toward some serious strength and strength endurance using VWC with progressively heavier weights. It's pretty exciting stuff (for me at least)..

 

[taikei]

From the book "The increase in heart wall thickness, along with increased compliance, increased baroreceptor sensitivity, and expansion of the heart chambers, makes the kettlebell snatch special."

Are you in agreement with this passage from the book? It's one that caught my eye and got me interested in taking the program further. My question is more about the accumulated and complicated processes involved regarding MVO2 with VWC and how they compare or comport with A+A snatching. I'm very curious about this and haven't found a clear answer yet.

My focus is on the left ventricle of the heart and in general terms regardless of the book, thickness in heart wall can be beneficial or detrimental depending on which way the wall is thickening. Thickening inward literally means less space in chamber, so Kenneth at the time had mentioned the thickness needs to be outward. But to this day I have no idea how a kettlebell snatch guarantees a desired form of hypertrophy in heart. Given this is a subject on cardiac issue, I don't like the unknown.

I did 8 sets of MVO2Max Boost protocol which I am guessing it's the next progression to 36/36. Given one of the "A" in A+A is aerobic recovery, I did not sense the recovery aspect(2 minutes interval and I would have not passed the talk test) and continuous snatch for over 30 seconds is never alactic(there goes another A").

 

[Bret S.]

My focus is on the left ventricle of the heart and in general terms regardless of the book, thickness in heart wall can be beneficial or detrimental depending on which way the wall is thickening. Thickening inward literally means less space in chamber, so Kenneth at the time had mentioned the thickness needs to be outward. But to this day I have no idea how a kettlebell snatch guarantees a desired form of hypertrophy in heart. Given this is a subject on cardiac issue, I don't like the unknown.

I did 8 sets of MVO2Max Boost protocol which I am guessing it's the next progression to 36/36. Given one of the "A" in A+A is aerobic recovery, I did not sense the recovery aspect(2 minutes interval and I would have not passed the talk test) and continuous snatch for over 30 seconds is never alactic(there goes another A").

Thanks @taikei , I'm pretty far out of my lane on this stuff. I'll keep looking into it though as I find it pretty interesting..

 

[Bret S.]

Today I did 60 sets, this after a 40 set session on Thurs of this week (today is Sat). I still felt the 'hangover' effect during Thursdays session but today I had the 'cruising' feeling all the way through and could have done more easily.

Looking at the HR graphs there are some interesting adaptations taking place. This graph is from 7-4-18.

This from today 7-14-18


The interesting thing is comparing the time percentages spent in the HR red zone.

Graph from 7-4 = 51% red zone
Graph from 7-14 = 40% red zone

I'm curious if it's a heart hypertrophy thing or that along with other adaptations taking place simultaneously. After reading KJ's work I know there are many factors contributing to the VO2max calculations. It's interesting using myself as a test subject of sorts and monitoring the data in real time as I move through the protocol. Just thought I would share my experience..

Edit: Monday I'll do 80 sets and hopefully cruise through most of it, the last 10 minutes are the real test of conditioning. It'll be interesting comparing this long session to the last one.

 

[Ryan T]

I want to bulletproof my shoulders, crush the SSST and get stronger in the press (I think this will help heal my shoulders as they both feel really good on this program) and ultimately move to heavy A+A snatching.

What about moving straight to A+A snatches but don't start heavy; start with a bell size you own? You'll probably still continue to increase the health and durability of you shoulders in a safer way. Perhaps reach out to Craig for his A+A snatch protocol? The A+A work in the protocol he sent me for S&S had clear guidelines for measuring progress and moving up in weight.

How long do you think you continue implementing VWC protocols? Seems like it should be a limited duration program, especially if you want to enhance your durability in the long-term. It might increase your durability in the short term, but applied for too long, it may have a rebound effect?

 

[Bret S.]

How long do you think you continue implementing VWC protocols? Seems like it should be a limited duration program, especially if you want to enhance your durability in the long-term. It might increase your durability in the short term, but applied for too long, it may have a rebound effect?

I'm doing VWC to see how far I can take it, and I really enjoy doing it. VWC is the most fun program I've done, probably ever, I can't describe it very well but it's exactly the right program for me at exactly the right time (gut feeling) . A+A will still be there for me and I will glide into it seamlessly when ready, I've already 'seen it' happen, now it's just a matter of following through with the program.

You mentioned a 'safer way' but that assumes VWC is somehow less safe. I was a little leery at first but have gained much confidence in and respect for the program. I believe it's still relevant and well conceived. Unless I have a setback or problem I see this going for several months or more.

As I mentioned earlier it is helping solidify my shoulders in a profound way and I love snatching. As for negative effects of the program I don't see any downside and feel very confident. Right now the 16k weight is massaging my shoulders and strengthening them every time I do a session.

 

[NoahMarek]

A lot of people have a tendency to be hypervigiliant when it comes to injuries/overtraining. If your form is sound, you listen to your body and probably deload every so often, you should be absolutely fine. And @Bret S. , if you enjoy VWC so much, definitely keep doing it! The effects it has on strength endurance and cardiovascular adaptations are legitimate! It’s a powerful program for sure.

 

[Ryan T]

I am currently doing an A+A snatch protocol and loving that too.

Just out of curiosity are you doing something like the Energy Systems and the Snatch Test | StrongFirst protocol or something of your own design?

@Bret S. Hope I did't come across poorly; that wasn't my intent. I think I am speaking out of my own pitfalls. I am known to go to extremes, but as you've said previously, you go where your gut leads you and you seem really in tune with what your body wants so you should be good to go. VWC actually appeals to me on multiple levels starting with our PM. The idea of bulletproofing my shoulders and stripping the body fat off just sounds awesome, and it would help me move towards one of my goals for 2018 (15% BF).

I have injured myself by taking things to far and forcing my body to do what I want rather than be sensitive to what it tells me it needs. So I am trying to take a slower approach. You are much further along on the training continuum than I am, and there are soft tissue adaptations that I think I need to make over a period of time before I would take up a high volume activity. That being said, perhaps the lighter snatch weights would give me that extra layer of protection. It's really when I was snatching 24kgs that I ran into problems. 20kg were no an issue to my hands. Letting the bell "float" from plam to fingers wasn't an issue.

So by all means as @NoahMarek said, do what is working for you. I look forward to seeing your progress and learning from you.

Cheers.

 

[taikei]

I'm curious if it's a heart hypertrophy thing or that along with other adaptations taking place simultaneously. After reading KJ's work I know there are many factors contributing to the VO2max calculations. It's interesting using myself as a test subject of sorts and monitoring the data in real time as I move through the protocol. Just thought I would share my experience..

It could be result of expanding left ventricle but other factors such as increase in basic strength can play the role.
I may have mentioned or not, the one significance that I experienced finishing Kenneth's Boost protocol was how easy military press became. I am guessing the more oxygen volume to muscles carries over to even some grinder strength.

May be it is worth testing your basic grinder lifts after you finished 80 sets.

 

[Bret S.]

A lot of people have a tendency to be hypervigiliant when it comes to injuries/overtraining. If your form is sound, you listen to your body and probably deload every so often, you should be absolutely fine. And @Bret S. , if you enjoy VWC so much, definitely keep doing it! The effects it has on strength endurance and cardiovascular adaptations are legitimate! It’s a powerful program for sure.

Thanks for the support Noah!

@Bret S. Hope I did't come across poorly; that wasn't my intent. I think I am speaking out of my own pitfalls. I am known to go to extremes, but as you've said previously, you go where your gut leads you and you seem really in tune with what your body wants so you should be good to go. VWC actually appeals to me on multiple levels starting with our PM. The idea of bulletproofing my shoulders and stripping the body fat off just sounds awesome, and it would help me move towards one of my goals for 2018 (15% BF).

Not at all Ryan, I appreciate the feedback

I have injured myself by taking things to far and forcing my body to do what I want rather than be sensitive to what it tells me it needs. So I am trying to take a slower approach. You are much further along on the training continuum than I am, and there are soft tissue adaptations that I think I need to make over a period of time before I would take up a high volume activity. That being said, perhaps the lighter snatch weights would give me that extra layer of protection. It's really when I was snatching 24kgs that I ran into problems. 20kg were no an issue to my hands. Letting the bell "float" from plam to fingers wasn't an issue.

You could 'test drive' the system using a 12k bell for 10-15 mins initially, then upping the sets as you go. It's very addictive, if you're partial to glycolytic training like me. It's also a great opportunity to fine tune snatch technique, as the sets go on and fatigue rises you look for holes in snatch energy efficiency.

VWC being a GT biased system is great for that portion of my overall training strategy but as we've discussed before the other training I'm doing is mostly AGT aside from the heavy swing and clean clusters. Right now I feel like I'm absolutely thriving in training, it's a fantastic feeling!

 

[Bret S.]

It could be result of expanding left ventricle but other factors such as increase in basic strength can play the role.
I may have mentioned or not, the one significance that I experienced finishing Kenneth's Boost protocol was how easy military press became. I am guessing the more oxygen volume to muscles carries over to even some grinder strength.

May be it is worth testing your basic grinder lifts after you finished 80 sets.

That's interesting @taikei, I remember somewhere in the book he mentions something like 'who knows, maybe you'll get stronger in the press' or something similar. Unfortunately I can't press heavy due to a shoulder injury. Having said that I recently (3 weeks ago or so) tried double 28 's and was successful, maybe that'll at least serve as some sort of benchmark.