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Other/Mixed Zone 2 cardio question

Other strength modalities (e.g., Clubs), mixed strength modalities (e.g., combined kettlebell and barbell), other goals (flexibility)

watchnerd

Level 8 Valued Member
Are they sprinters because they were born with more fast twitch fibers? Or they have more fast twitch fibers because they are sprinting? Maybe a combination of two ? Not easy to prove if a long term study is not conducted.

Probably both.

I was terrible at long distance running as a kid.

Not fast enough for 100m, but fast enough for 400m and to play rugby, soccer, and football.

Which made me "bursty" enough to start weightlifting, after which I got more powerful -- i.e. my sprints got faster.

To this day, even at age 53, my sprints are faster and my jumps are higher when I'm competition ready for weightlifting than 6 months out.
 

watchnerd

Level 8 Valued Member
Oh, FWIW:

I think there is a psychological / nervous system component, too.

I could never be a powerlifter because I *hate* slow grinds.

I literally cannot pull off the floor slow or squat slow. If I can't get a lot of momentum into the lift from the start, my body goes "eff it, it's too heavy".
 

Anna C

Level 9 Valued Member
Team Leader Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
Sinister
Oh, FWIW:

I think there is a psychological / nervous system component, too.

I could never be a powerlifter because I *hate* slow grinds.

I literally cannot pull off the floor slow or squat slow. If I can't get a lot of momentum into the lift from the start, my body goes "eff it, it's too heavy".

I am the opposite. I'm much better at slow than I am at fast as far as force generation. But weightlifting is more fun than powerlifting, so here I am. :)
 

watchnerd

Level 8 Valued Member
I was about to add some comments about my belief in the genetics, this article makes sense to me.

In the realm of strength sports, leverages / limb ratios are also massively important.

Which, unlike muscle fibers, you can't train.

For examples, the leg / torso ratio you want to make an ideal weightlifter (long torso, shorter limbs) is not what you want to make a good deadlifter (shorter torso, longer arms).
 

Bauer

Level 7 Valued Member
Are they sprinters because they were born with more fast twitch fibers? Or they have more fast twitch fibers because they are sprinting? Maybe a combination of two ? Not easy to prove if a long term study is not conducted.
As @watchnerd says, probably both. But there are some interesting twin studies:
Check out Andy Galpin twin study. Not longevity but muscle fibre.
One twin was an endurance runner for some years, the other couldn't be arsed.
The former had large amounts of type 1 muscle fibre....the other didn't. Not surprising really but the non exercise twin had more fast twitch than the endurance twin....which is interesting.
Some interesting twin studies too on astronauts (Kelly twins) where one twin was on the space station, the other stuck here on earth. Huge amount of data...pitched at adaptive responses to zero gravity but from memory the findings had implications for health generally and ageing, telomere comparison etc. and every biomarker.
It'll be on NASA somewhere, that is the full study but it has been published and discussed here and there.
 
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Anna C

Level 9 Valued Member
Team Leader Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
Sinister
In the realm of strength sports, leverages / limb ratios are also massively important.

Which, unlike muscle fibers, you can't train.

For examples, the leg / torso ratio you want to make an ideal weightlifter (long torso, shorter limbs) is not what you want to make a good deadlifter (shorter torso, longer arms).
Another strike against me.... But still having fun!
 

ali

Level 7 Valued Member
My understanding of fibre type is from Andy Galpin and there are many unknowns.

Superfast type remain until your last breath. The amount is determined by genetics...I think even top sprinters only have 13%. Slow twitch can be trained and modelled as we know to have greater mitochondrial density. It's the many forms of hybrid intermediate types that are most interesting....very plastic, adaptive and respond to the stimulus provided. Can go towards more slow, more fast and a mix of both with varying amounts.
And genetics. There is a gene...ACTN3....which codes for proteins in fast fibre.
Is a single gene or codes with influence from other genes remains unanswered....aka the sports gene.
So perhaps, perhaps, the mix of fibres could tend towards faster type with the right stimulus with genetic propensity towards those fibres...or perhaps not.
A lot of unknown unknowns.
 

silveraw

Level 7 Valued Member
I want something like the Food Pyramid for cardio
People would immediately ignore it, do what they were going to do anyways, CVD will still be rampant, and in a decade a bunch of charlatans will build business empires on top of "Look at what the cardio pyramid did for America's health! Don't trust the government when it comes to your cardio! Do my patented system instead and buy my dehydrated white rhino heart supplements or you will die!"
The arguments between zone 2 and HIIT tribes will become so heated, Steve will have to make a dedicated cardio section and hide it next to the nutrition section.
But I am a bit on the cynical side of things...

It would be nice to have a clearer visual image to guide people though.
 

watchnerd

Level 8 Valued Member
People would immediately ignore it, do what they were going to do anyways, CVD will still be rampant, and in a decade a bunch of charlatans will build business empires on top of "Look at what the cardio pyramid did for America's health! Don't trust the government when it comes to your cardio! Do my patented system instead and buy my dehydrated white rhino heart supplements or you will die!"
The arguments between zone 2 and HIIT tribes will become so heated, Steve will have to make a dedicated cardio section and hide it next to the nutrition section.
But I am a bit on the cynical side of things...

It would be nice to have a clearer visual image to guide people though.

You would have killed the Easter Bunny concept in committee. ;)

"Kids will find out he's not real and on top of that we'll have these horrible marshmallow yellow chickens that will make kids into lifelong sugar addicts at a young age such that 40 years in their future they're addicted to 64 oz Big Gulps of Dr Pepper and riding scooters."
 
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Don Fairbanks

SFG II
Certified Instructor
People would immediately ignore it, do what they were going to do anyways, CVD will still be rampant, and in a decade a bunch of charlatans will build business empires on top of "Look at what the cardio pyramid did for America's health! Don't trust the government when it comes to your cardio! Do my patented system instead and buy my dehydrated white rhino heart supplements or you will die!"
The arguments between zone 2 and HIIT tribes will become so heated, Steve will have to make a dedicated cardio section and hide it next to the nutrition section.
But I am a bit on the cynical side of things...

It would be nice to have a clearer visual image to guide people though.
Do Some Easy Do Some Hard.
Cruise Some Speed Some.
 

offwidth

Level 9 Valued Member
That's kind of what I was guessing. But is that how it works?

Being a cyclist and weightlifter, I'm often wondering... Can I build more of both? Can I build the strength of both? Or to some extent, is it an either/or proposition?

I imagine you have similar thoughts relative to being a rower and weightlifter...
Look at track cyclists, and sprint specialists…
 

Don Fairbanks

SFG II
Certified Instructor
That's kind of what I was guessing. But is that how it works?

Being a cyclist and weightlifter, I'm often wondering... Can I build more of both? Can I build the strength of both? Or to some extent, is it an either/or proposition?

I imagine you have similar thoughts relative to being a rower and weightlifter...
Listen to the part on muscle fiber types and identical twins. 26:10, all of it is excellent and will be a 6 part series.

 

paules

Level 5 Valued Member
Listen to the part on muscle fiber types and identical twins. 26:10, all of it is excellent and will be a 6 part series.

Excellent podcast, this one too:

 
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