all posts post new thread

Kettlebell 10 000 Swings as a long life routine ?

Status
Closed Thread. (Continue Discussion of This Topic by Starting a New Thread.)
Andrej SK

Andrej SK

Level 4 Valued Member
Hello guys,

I'd like to know your opinion. You probably all know this 10 thousand Swing challenge initiated by Dan John that's actually currently running. The objective is to perform 500 Swings a day + 1 of the additional exercises such as Dips, Goblet Squat, Overhead press or pull ups in between rests. Until you eventually reach 10 thousand swings in one month.

The 10,000 Swing Kettlebell Workout | T Nation

I wonder if you think that this can be not only a one month program but also a solid "life-time" stand-alone routine, but probably with less swings a day. I mean something like 200 Swings a day with additional 1 key exercise that you change every work out....

What's your opinion, would it work ?
 
Everything works for 6 weeks. Your body would adjust to it and you would stop seeing progression. Nothing wrong with swings daily. Did the 10k workout. Never again. Get to week 4 and let me know your thoughts.

Others might have a different opinion. Great shock cycle for a month.
 
Dan john talks about doing 75-250 swings daily, so that would probably be a more sustainable range once you're done, gl with the 10k challenge!
 
S&S is 100 swings a day - it works. I've done the 10,000 swing challenge - it sucks - i love it, but it sucks - and unless you have nothing else going on in your life - literally - i wouldn't recommend doing it more than once a year. But daily swings, sure, they can be a staple exercise as a stand alone or an assist, depends on weight and volume and more importantly - your objective.
 
In my humble non-educated opinion, no. It's brutal if done exactly as written, 10000 swings every 20 sessions with 2 on 1 off, that's about 4 weeks.
 
I haven't done the 10,000 swing workout, but I think it's all about the swings, and the other lift is there mainly to maintain strength in those lifts/movements. I don't think progress is expected in those other lifts. For that reason, I don't think it would be a good long-term program - even if you lower the swing volume.

In fact I think I've seen a few posts by Dan John stating that it should be done once (per year, possibly).

Another similar option, which I'm considering when I get back to regular workouts, is the One-Kettlebell Workout from a newer article:

Tip: Do The One-Kettlebell Workout | T Nation

I was actually doing basically the same workout as occasional "additional sessions" around my S&S sessions. You can play with the volume and the kettlebell weight for progress. It would probably be better for a long-term program than the 10,000 swing workout. Obviously, it's not really a strength-building workout, but I think it's a good one for general fitness and conditioning.
 
Pnigro said:
People can stay on a program for months and still make progress.

Rite of Passage is one example.
Click to expand...

Yes and no. Progression is built into the RoP, in that the program gives guidelines for when to move up in weight and how to scale training sessions. RoP can easily be done as more of a "park bench" program. Especially if someone respects the rest interval suggestions.

The 10,000 swing program was written as a "bus bench" and isn't intended to be done year round. You'd have to tweak it and, once you finish the initial go-around, you aren't really doing the program any more.

My question would be: why would anyone want to do something like this year round? I'm all for flipping the crazy switch but why do you need this level of volume on a sustained basis and what will it cost you to maintain that?

Andrej, I think the answer you seek would actually be found in doing the challenge. It's always worth quoting Dan John (re: tabata front squats):

"I'm sure someone will comment, "If it's so good, why don't you do it every day?" Go ahead, try it and report back after the second day.
​
Maybe it's just my sucky recovery capacity, but doing the 10,000 challenge just once would completely fry me. I can't imagine holding down a job, raising a family and even occasionally enjoying my life if I did something like that perpetually.
 
a nice topic to philosophize about. The 10.000 swing session:
banzaiengr said:
It's brutal if done exactly as written, 10000 swings every 20 sessions with 2 on 1 off, that's about 4 weeks.
Click to expand...
I did it once and it was exactly that. But nothing I will ever do again. There are other swing based protocols I would prefer as kind of, to quote the great Dan John bus bench program: The SF protocol 520 six weeks of two sessions of swings and presses, to trigger fat loss, muscle growth, strength gains, conditioning, body composition, a bit of everything in a super minimalistic approach with some guidelines, and one can do for instance some pullups, or this or that if it is missing.

On simple and sinister: I once said it is a WOD. Workout Of the Decade, to have an allegory for a lifetime. I only have a bit of just two years of experience on it, and my opinion on it has not changed. The more I do the swings and the get ups and or presses, the more it gets solidified. The breathing capitel of s&s gives me work for a lifetime. I like to wave my loads when doing it, which prevents staleness and keeps me fresh.

Currently I enjoy Al's protocol 103 big time. I have faith in the protocol, I have faith in the swings, I have faith in me doing the swings and the protocol. A protocol consisting purely on heavy swings to build... I will see.

So, swings as a lifelong routine? absolutely YES. Swings as an exercise is that great, because there are no extreme positions in it, is very joint friendly, and according to loads, sets, reps I think almost every aspect of fitness can be achieved with it. But instead of 10.000 swings per month more like around 2000 to take or give a few hundreds a la s&s is much more suitable in my book.
 
While the verbatim 10k challenge is a wonderful program--I use it on my students once they've reached the point where they can handle 300 daily swings in 15 minutes or less (16k for ladies, 24k for gents) and I've personally put it into effect on two occasions (once per year) when I felt the body needed a "hard reset" to remind it of just who was in charge around here and to jumpstart a more long term plan of attack after it was all over, I wouldn't recommend adopting it as your daily punch-the-clock training.

First, it's mind numbingly boring--you really do have to be a special case to want to repeat 500 hardstyle swings day in, day out for the remainder of your athletic career. That said, unless your goal is simply swinging for its own sake and not as a means to some end, why would you want to do little else except 500 per session (after all, it's supposed to be a stand alone program; if we feel up to working out again that same day, we're "under-belled")?

While I can't recall the exact link any longer, and I have too much homework to do right now to commit to anything beyond a cursory search, Coach Dan John himself made it clear in one of his reflections on the 10k that it was not intended to be, nor should we attempt to make it a long term program, in a much more succinct manner than I can. Take the man at his word--when he speaks, it behooves us to listen (and take notes).

For daily swings, I believe the Chief when he stated in S&S that 100 per day is the minimum effective dose. Pat Flynn suggests 300 good swings cumulatively per day is the Goldilocks "just right" amount, as he wittily put it, and I feel he's nailed that one.

To sum up: I suggest 100-300 good swings daily--two arm, one arm, mixing 'em up, and treating the 10k Challenge (remember, it's supposed to be a challenge) as a periodic event. Maybe take the month of December to ring in each New Year with 10,000 before midnight.
 
Did it this time last year. I think back and wonder 'why did I do that'? It's called a challenge for good reason.

One week in, yes this would be a nice annual trip.

2 week: getting into it, enjoying it, then knocked out with a virus. I think overcooking it a bit, maybe.

2 week break

3 week, as is written: lost the ability to count again. My swings though are rock solid now, I feel.

4 week: really had to dig deep as is said when things are on the hard side of hard. Glad I kept the goal the goal though because I did consider ditching it. Didn't do it as absolutely written and needed to factor in some extra rest days. Good to do certainly but very much a one off for me.
 
Andrej,

It just occurred to me: if you like to swing a lot and often, you should check out Tracy Reifkind's swing routines. She has a bunch of clever programs which combine 1-h, 2-h and hand-to-hand... and you can accumulate stupid volume while never getting bored. She doesn't swing every day, but her per-workout numbers are stupendous. Course, she's been doing this a while.

Tracy Reifkind's Training Food and Thought
 
Run it for one cycle, I found it tough to recover from and as other posts have mentioned I found the boredom factor hard to deal with.
 
ctygesen said:
Yes and no. Progression is built into the RoP, in that the program gives guidelines for when to move up in weight and how to scale training sessions. RoP can easily be done as more of a "park bench" program. Especially if someone respects the rest interval suggestions.

The 10,000 swing program was written as a "bus bench" and isn't intended to be done year round.
Click to expand...

Oh I agree.

It's just that when he said "Everything works for only 6 weeks" I thought he was referring to any program.

Clearly the 10k swing challenge is something to be done once and that's it.

But even if the weight and reps stay the same, you can continue to make progress after 6 weeks in many programs, such as Simple & Sinister.
 
There are some tough folk on this forum.

I managed about 4 days of the 10,000 swing challenge before deciding it wasn't for me. It would have destroyed me in 2 weeks. Hats off to anyone who completed it.

Now S+S or something like Al's A+A protocols feel like something I could do indefinitely.
 
I hear you guys about the 10,000 swing volume being too much, and "Why would you want to do that?" etc. - But the OP states very clearly that he's talking about a much lower volume of swings (maybe 200 per day).

I don't think his point is to do the 10,000 swing program as written for the long term. I think his question is whether doing a certain number of swings (say, 200 per session) plus one additional lift, would be a good program for the long term.
 
Status
Closed Thread. (Continue Discussion of This Topic by Starting a New Thread.)
Back
Top Bottom