Alactic + Aerobic

Discussion in 'Kettlebell' started by Harald Motz, Sep 1, 2017.

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  1. Harald Motz

    Harald Motz Strong, Powerful Member of the Forum Certified Instructor

    If you're here because you're following a link from our podcast with Al Ciampa, Harald Motz' original post has received 100's of replies from our members and is approaching 50,000 page views. It make take you a little while to come up to speed on what you're reading, but I hope you find it worth your time.

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    I've been into aerobic running about 8 weeks now. I run around 3-6 times a week mostly around an hour at 135-145bpm steadily. I just start running easily and walk the last 4-5min. As I lately use my hr monitor frequently, I compared my apples then to my oranges now. My Bodyweight stayed at 82-83kg. The course is the same.

    07-07-17 1h run.png
    07/07/2017
    60min - 137avg/145max - 7,7km/h (4th run)


    08-30-17 1h run.png
    30/08/2017
    64min - 64min - 10,03km - 133/140 - 9,5km/h (36th run)

    1,8km/h more with 4bpm on average less.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2017
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  2. Harald Motz

    Harald Motz Strong, Powerful Member of the Forum Certified Instructor

    comparing snatch performance in that time frame with 40kg:
    07-08-17 snatch 40kg.png
    07-08-2017
    1h snatch - 40kg - 5reps - 22repeats - 36min - 131avg/147

    09-01-17.png
    09-01-2017
    1h snatch - 40kg - 5reps - 22repeats - 29min - 133/146

    7min less with 2bpm on average more.

    In the last month (August) I did snatches only once a week, but did s&s therefore on most days of the week.

    Training aerobic running makes aerobic running better, that is obvious. I am confident enough to claim that aerobic running makes snatching better. Maybe that's all newbie gainz, but along the lines what @aciampa predicted anyways.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2017
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  3. Al Ciampa

    Al Ciampa Strong, Powerful Member of the Forum Certified Instructor

    High volume aerobic running allows you to absorb more anaerobic training with less biologic cost. There's no other way to push this bar; and no way around it.

    Nice work, Harald!
     
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  4. ali

    ali Strong, Powerful Member of the Forum

    Newbie gainz? Mutant gainz more like, that's a 40! (for 'insert choice of expletives here' sake, haha)

    Great to see that progress in numbers Harald, bravo.
     
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  5. Bro Mo

    Bro Mo Strong Member of the Forum

    I find it most interesting the change at which the heart rate returns (looks like about ~30% faster in the second assessments). I just started reading through "Training for the New Alpinism" and was surprised to see how much volume was recommended in HR zone 1 and 2. Have you or the other testers trained keeping your HR substantially below MAF at ~110/120 for running or snatch/swinging?
     
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  6. The Nail

    The Nail Strong, Powerful, Explosively Athletic Member of the Forum

    Well, crap.
     
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  7. mark reinke

    mark reinke Double-Digit Post Count Certified Instructor

    Congrats Harald.

    I'm about to see how rucking plays into the snatches.

    I'm not rucking as frequently as @Harald Motz is running... more like 1-2/week. I also just finished three weeks of Strong Endurance plan 033c.

    I'm shifting to A + A snatches next week and will compare to my last round of it this past winter
     
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  8. Harald Motz

    Harald Motz Strong, Powerful Member of the Forum Certified Instructor

    My MAF is 180-40. For everyday one hour steady running 135 is very good at the moment and I could go for 90min +. 110/120bpm would be some brisk walking on flat terrain, which would have great benefits on its own, and the organism would run even more on fat.
    My A+A work in the last year looks like the above hr-wise. The bunch of my overall training seems to be in this "green" zone.

    There I is something about easy running. This unrestricted breathing in and out deeply and building up a stride. Best calf work besides riding a racing bike. Running with great stride builds some strong legs, only running builds.

    Thanks sir. It's a pleasure to elaborate on your teachings.

    I'm sure @Neal Sivula know's about snatchn'ruck.

    Thanks man.
    Re-engaged the good old Polar. Neglected it completely first half of this year, as I did not want to compare that much. It's a great techy device, to use from time to time and watching the graphs. I like to build my flatline running with it.

    Aerobic base building is deeply benefical. Iron for strength, aerobic locomotion for health. Like meat & potatoes and some green. I just have to keep it on my menu to stay fine.
     
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  9. The Nail

    The Nail Strong, Powerful, Explosively Athletic Member of the Forum

    Al, would loading hiking/rucking have this effect too?
     
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  10. Neal Sivula

    Neal Sivula Strong Member of the Forum

    @mark reinke I ruck 3-5 times a week and Snatch A&A 3 times weekly. I'll be very interested to hear how it works for you.
     
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  11. Anna C

    Anna C Strong, Powerful, Explosively Athletic Member of the Forum Certified Instructor

    This sounds deceptively simple, but Neal rucks with 45 - 65 lb for 30-90 minutes, and snatches 32-36kg for 16-40 repeats of 5. Day after day, week after week, month after month. Some serious work and capacity built from smart, slow building. True A+A+LSD work -- and one of our best examples to follow! Along with @Miguel, @Harald Motz , and others... basically we do what @aciampa guides us to do, and it works incredibly well for both performance AND health.
     
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  12. Craig Kaufman

    Craig Kaufman Still New to StrongFirst Forum

    what is LSD work?
     
  13. Anna C

    Anna C Strong, Powerful, Explosively Athletic Member of the Forum Certified Instructor

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  14. Harald Motz

    Harald Motz Strong, Powerful Member of the Forum Certified Instructor

    There is really great synergy between and a&a work and aerobic locomotion. Recovery is better between repeats and from day to day. Currently I have my daily dose of s&s or a&a snatches and an almost daily run. These feed each other nicely.
     
  15. Miguel

    Miguel Strong, Powerful Member of the Forum

    For running my normal HR "pace" is about 127bpm, but I have logged some miles ~120. My rucking HR is substantially lower on the flats and tops off at about 130 on the hills.

    During snatch sessions I normally let my HR recover to sub 120, with maxes reaching 164 and averages around 128-135. My "MAF" is 144.

    If anyone is looking for an example to follow, please look above to my predecessors, mentors, friends, and assistant coaches, under the tutelage of Mr. Al Ciampa @aciampa ,@Anna C , @Harald Motz , @Neal Sivula have all been instrumental in guiding me towards better health through increased understanding of the beneficial physiological adaptations derived from A+A+LSD training, in addition witnessing firsthand just how efficiently the synergy works.
     
  16. Al Ciampa

    Al Ciampa Strong, Powerful Member of the Forum Certified Instructor

    Similar, perhaps even better; but walking is not running. If you're heavy (not your opinion, but for your structure), walking won't have any carry over to running. If not, it'll probably have a lot more.
     
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  17. Al Ciampa

    Al Ciampa Strong, Powerful Member of the Forum Certified Instructor

    I would footnote this to add that this dude is not a weekend warrior, recreational athlete or desk jockey.
     
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  18. The Nail

    The Nail Strong, Powerful, Explosively Athletic Member of the Forum

    I'm 5'7", 174 pounds, 32" waist. Not fat, but not lean.
     
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  19. Al Ciampa

    Al Ciampa Strong, Powerful Member of the Forum Certified Instructor

    Muscle and lean mass is weight too...
     
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  20. The Nail

    The Nail Strong, Powerful, Explosively Athletic Member of the Forum

    Do you run any other kettlebell moves?
     

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