Alactic + Aerobic

Discussion in 'Kettlebell' started by Harald Motz, Sep 1, 2017.

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  1. DavThew

    DavThew More than 500 posts

    I was considering using jump rope as an aerobic/locomotion type training. (I am also rucking, and will build up to running again over the next couple of months). Primarily I am using it for the sport specific advantages that it develops with regards to martial arts (light feet, agility), but also on a few recommendations by others to use as a stepping stone to return to running and as an adjunct to it.

    I ran a couple of fairly short tests using my heart-rate monitor over the last week looking to see just how aerobic I could keep it before running into my MAF threshold. I did a couple of 20 minute tests, jumping rope at a relaxed speed, and then actively resting shortly before I hit my MAF threshold (152bpm), I would then let my HR drop down to around 125bpm whilst actively resting with drills like fast and loose, or standing cross crawls and other OS drills. It didn't take too long (maybe a minute or so) for me to pop up to 152bpm, but then recovery was fairly quick. In a 20minute session I did around 10 repeats of jump rope. Hopefully I will see this number reduce as my aerobic base builds up.

    When I ruck my HR is generally around 120-140bpm depending on terrain.

    I think it should have a good carry over with A+A snatches (which I have just restarted after a long time in rehab wilderness), but if I'm missing something please let me know.
     
  2. Harald Motz

    Harald Motz Quadruple-Digit Post Count Certified Instructor

    fine schedule. The rope when done consistently (without soreness) will greatly condition feet, achilles and calves. It builds springs. Good for running.

    With rucking you are into a sound (aerobic) realm.

    A key, as with everything good (and bad) is to build up a regular habit have some faith and patience to have some positive effects after some weeks. The more relaxed, the better.
    Aerobics is good performed with leg warmers or without, if they have to pink may be a matter of taste.
     
  3. Steve Freides

    Steve Freides Director of Community Engagement Staff Member Senior Certified Instructor

    Since we're talking about rucking, a question - what amount of weight, or percentage of bodyweight, or whatever metric, determines that it's heavy enough to call rucking? And what distance would you consider minimum? I'm curious to know if I already do this or not.

    TIA.

    -S-
     
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  4. Harald Motz

    Harald Motz Quadruple-Digit Post Count Certified Instructor

    how it is possible to ruck an equivalent of 32 for distance or time is beyond me. @Neal Sivula @Miguel do their work on it.
     
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  5. Neal Sivula

    Neal Sivula More than 500 posts

    Steve, I'm going to say if you have a ruck with weight in it, you're rucking. I don't think there are any specific requirements as far as weight carried or distance covered. I think most start around 10 kgs for less than 30 minutes and gradually work up as your schedule and body allow.
     
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  6. Steve Freides

    Steve Freides Director of Community Engagement Staff Member Senior Certified Instructor

    I buy groceries a mile from my house and walk home with a backpack plus one or two bags in hand. 10 kg is a pretty typical weight for the total.

    -S-
     
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  7. Neal Sivula

    Neal Sivula More than 500 posts

    Steve, you're in the club. With Farmers Carries as a bonus!
     
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  8. Harald Motz

    Harald Motz Quadruple-Digit Post Count Certified Instructor

    Subjective.
    Inman. -S- man, or the art to be inconvenient, deliberately.
     
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  9. offwidth

    offwidth More than 5000 posts

    I agree.
    Plus there are lots of variables to consider besides weight.
    • Speed
    • Distance
    • Surface
    • Gradient
    • Obstacles
    But it's all good stuff...
     
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  10. Harald Motz

    Harald Motz Quadruple-Digit Post Count Certified Instructor

    A+A&A.PNG
    This was my Sunday morning meditation practice. The hr stats 18 days ago, same weight, same repeats, same duration where: 139avg/154max, today: 136avg/149max, average hr decreasing. I feel more comfortable between repeats.

    Shortly after snatches I went for an autopilot run of 90min around 130bpm.

    Aerobics makes a big difference with my A+A work. No doubt, I should be doing something else.
     
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  11. Tobias Wissmueller

    Tobias Wissmueller Quadruple-Digit Post Count

    @Harald Motz what do you mean with the very last sentence? What else should you be doing?
     
  12. Harald Motz

    Harald Motz Quadruple-Digit Post Count Certified Instructor

    My fault Tobi, no doubt I should not be doing something else, or otherwise I could say: it works so good, I should do something else.
    The way is the goal, definitely is true for this great philosophy of physical culture.
     
  13. mark reinke

    mark reinke Double-Digit Post Count Certified Instructor

    at the risk of overly quantifying it (sorry @aciampa), throw on your HR monitor for one of your trips and see what it looks like. I have been surprised with some of my students' responses to what could be considered a low load (12 kg for a decently strong male at ~100kg, 15 kg for a strong, fit 80 kg male and 10 kg for a 67kg female most recently).
    these are all in the neighborhood of 11-15% of body weight.

    it seems like the following matter:
    novelty of stimulus: when it's newer, it's harder
    quality of pack: the better fit the pack, the easier it seems to be
    type of load: the "weirder" the load, the harder it is (i.e. a sandbag (harder) vs. a weight plate (easier))
    manner of carry: further away from the trunk, the harder it is (your grocery bags help here!)

    we've also experimented with packs vs plain sandbags at the same load, and there's a big difference in difficulty...

    I'd imagine that your mixed load would do the job admirably even at a lighter load, but like all things once you adapt...

    hope that helps!
     
  14. GeoffreyLevens

    GeoffreyLevens Quadruple-Digit Post Count

    That makes me feel better! Couple years ago when I was in Ecuador, about once a week I would walk to local shop where they sold 5 gallon jugs of water, figure a couple pounds for the plastic jug so figure a bit over 40 lbs in my knapsack. I weigh about 110. By the time I would get home, about 1/2 mile or so, I felt like I was an inch shorter. I looked like a staggering gnome trudging down the inclined, cobble stone street humping that jug on my back. I had been down there awhile and the only reference points I had were the local guys who are thicker but mostly about my size. They would have easily picked up one of those jugs in each hand (holding it by the neck) along with the one in the pack, and then fast walked down the street without hardly breaking a sweat or breathing hard.

    Some years ago I had a weight vest that was adjustable up to 40 lbs and it was definitely MUCH easier to walk with that on and regularly went about 2 1/2 miles wearing it on flat ground. Still felt like a lot though!

    Never monitored any "vitals" with either though
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2017
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  15. Steve Freides

    Steve Freides Director of Community Engagement Staff Member Senior Certified Instructor

    FWIW, something I've remarked on to my wife many times is that when I'm walking with a backpack with whatever my usual grocery weight is in it, I feel like I walk _better_ - I couldn't tell you why but it just feels like my gait gets adjusted somehow.

    -S-
     
  16. GeoffreyLevens

    GeoffreyLevens Quadruple-Digit Post Count

    I have noticed similar and have thought it was due the "sudden" increase in weight/pressure through feet to ground causing increased awareness of my feet and ground contact. Adjustments seem to follow automatically from that.
     
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  17. Harald Motz

    Harald Motz Quadruple-Digit Post Count Certified Instructor

    snatch - running 09-13.PNG
    was today's practice. Recovery is getting easier, between repeats I am getting calmer, "air hunger" gets a bit less.

    Interesting finding:
    after the snatches I took a short cold shower, sat down and put the pulse oximeter on a finger, to have a direct glimpse on heart rate. I observed a bit and it was around 75bpm.

    Then I went out for the run. When I was back, I took a short cold shower, sat down and put the pulse oximeter on a finger, to have a direct glimpse on heart rate. I observed a bit and it was around 65bpm.

    So the heart rate was about 10bpm slower after the run, although I doubled my training time with it. Could be a n=1 effect, but nevertheless interesting.

    This accumulation of easy aerobic base work makes recovery definitely easier. With my current schedule of volumes of heavy ballistics the skin of my hands is a limiting factor.

    lsd makes weak and slow. Sure. I am not.
     
  18. Steve W.

    Steve W. Quadruple-Digit Post Count

    I love this phrasing -- it can be read several different ways that all express different shades of the same overall meaning.
     
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  19. Harald Motz

    Harald Motz Quadruple-Digit Post Count Certified Instructor

    but beware: I am a liar. It is all self-reference, more or less.
     
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  20. Harald Motz

    Harald Motz Quadruple-Digit Post Count Certified Instructor

    A confirmation of my observation from last weeks A+A practice of the recovery promoting effects of easy relaxed locomotion breath work aka LSD. I think it is worth repeating.

    19-09-17.PNG
    S&S
    1h swing 48kg - 10r x 10 + get up 48kg - 1r x 10
    24min - 131avg/148max

    shortly after:
    19-09-2017.PNG

    running - 59min - 128avg/133max - 7,7km/h - index: 49

    Observation
    after S&S I took a short cold shower, put hr device on again, sat down and laced my shoes. I watched the monitor a bit, and hr went down to around 80 bpm not lower after waiting for three minutes.

    Then I went out for the run @ 130bpm for an hour. I was back home, sat down for 3 minutes, the hr was down to around 65bpm.

    Then I took a short cold shower, and sat down again for a bit. Watching hr, it was down to around 55bpm.

    I made such observation for the second time. To watch and experience such effect is quite remarkable for me. Yes, there is such a thing called recovery run. A calm balanced feeling goes hand in hand with a calm hr.

    The S&S session felt harder than the graph shows. It was all done with the 48kg. According to my Polar the SAS took 240kcal, the hour of running took 560kcal. I've put after some work some more work and measured and felt better. Paradox, to some extent.

    Conclusion:
    LSD Running helps recovery immensely. I measure and recognize it in between repeats, after an intense session and on a day to day basis. What a "finisher"
     

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