Other/Mixed Duck Feet

[joemac]

Hi.

I have had a knee injury for some time which I think occurred due to too many turkish getups at too heavy a weight.
So, I stopped with the getups and am currently focusing on rehabilitation of the lower body to make my knees better.
I've noticed that my feet are crooked. The left foot is pointed a little bit to the left, and my right foot is pointed very far to the right.
So I walk down the street like a penguin. And when I'm in the gym and in squat position both feet become point very far in opposite directions. Its very uncomfortable to force the feet to point straight, particularly when in the gym and doing any kind of lifting.
I had always thought this was normal because everyone I see on the streets has this condition too, so more and some less.
But I've read that this is actually unnatural and bad for you, that it is caused by years of shoe wearing and other conditions of the modern civilized world.
Is this true? Should I seek to fix it? Would it help with knee rehab and prevention of future leg/knee injuries?
If so, how should I address this? There are many YouTube videos on this, but every video gives completely different directions!
And some videos give only 1 exercise to fix it, and others 12 exercise, which is a bit much.
I'm totally ignorant and would appreciate any knowledge from people who know about this issue and have experience "fixing" it in themselves or others.

Thank you.
Ilya

 

[watchnerd]

Hi.

I have had a knee injury for some time which I think occurred due to too many turkish getups at too heavy a weight.
So, I stopped with the getups and am currently focusing on rehabilitation of the lower body to make my knees better.
I've noticed that my feet are crooked. The left foot is pointed a little bit to the left, and my right foot is pointed very far to the right.
So I walk down the street like a penguin. And when I'm in the gym and in squat position both feet become point very far in opposite directions. Its very uncomfortable to force the feet to point straight, particularly when in the gym and doing any kind of lifting.
I had always thought this was normal because everyone I see on the streets has this condition too, so more and some less.
But I've read that this is actually unnatural and bad for you, that it is caused by years of shoe wearing and other conditions of the modern civilized world.
Is this true? Should I seek to fix it? Would it help with knee rehab and prevention of future leg/knee injuries?
If so, how should I address this? There are many YouTube videos on this, but every video gives completely different directions!
And some videos give only 1 exercise to fix it, and others 12 exercise, which is a bit much.
I'm totally ignorant and would appreciate any knowledge from people who know about this issue and have experience "fixing" it in themselves or others.

Thank you.
Ilya

How extreme are we talking?

5-15 degrees of toe-out when squatting?

That's pretty normal.

Or are you more like 45 degrees?

That would seem excessive.

 

[bluejeff]

Whether or not you "should" fix it depends on whether or not you have any ongoing aches and pains. Having a right foot turned out more than the left is a common pattern because most people are right side dominant. This can't be said for everyone, everywhere, but it is pretty common for people to carry more weight on the right leg than the left.

I could go into the details of what I have learned about this if you'd like, but I would prefer to start simple and say this:

There are a LOT of professional and elite athletes that perform very well with asymmetries. I would not get hung up on it unless you are having discomfort, especially discomfort on only one side of the body. If you feel that you ARE having issues, then I would be happy to link some resources here, as well as my recommendations based on my own experience fixing the exact issue you describe in myself.

 

[Sam Goldner]

It’s hard to know what to do for an intervention without knowing the root cause for your positional challenges. A common source is a lack of ankle Dorsiflexion which leads to compensation via ankle pronation; the fix for that would be improving ankle dorsiflexion. That would be the totally wrong intervention, though, if that wasn’t your issue and it was instead a bony abnormality or a strength imbalance.

Do you have a physical therapist/physio who could assess you?

 

[Gypsyplumber]

Hi.

I have had a knee injury for some time which I think occurred due to too many turkish getups at too heavy a weight.
So, I stopped with the getups and am currently focusing on rehabilitation of the lower body to make my knees better.
I've noticed that my feet are crooked. The left foot is pointed a little bit to the left, and my right foot is pointed very far to the right.
So I walk down the street like a penguin. And when I'm in the gym and in squat position both feet become point very far in opposite directions. Its very uncomfortable to force the feet to point straight, particularly when in the gym and doing any kind of lifting.
I had always thought this was normal because everyone I see on the streets has this condition too, so more and some less.
But I've read that this is actually unnatural and bad for you, that it is caused by years of shoe wearing and other conditions of the modern civilized world.
Is this true? Should I seek to fix it? Would it help with knee rehab and prevention of future leg/knee injuries?
If so, how should I address this? There are many YouTube videos on this, but every video gives completely different directions!
And some videos give only 1 exercise to fix it, and others 12 exercise, which is a bit much.
I'm totally ignorant and would appreciate any knowledge from people who know about this issue and have experience "fixing" it in themselves or others.

Thank you.
Ilya

I have duck feet too, I used to get poked fun of by my high school baseball teammates when running the bases. I’ve noticed I also tend to drag my heels when I walk as my work boots always have major heel wear. I don’t know how much this effects the rest of my body but I’m sure it’s probably not the best. Also not really sure I can comfortably fix it completely

 

[TedM]

I have duck feet too, I used to get poked fun of by my high school baseball teammates when running the bases. I’ve noticed I also tend to drag my heels when I walk as my work boots always have major heel wear. I don’t know how much this effects the rest of my body but I’m sure it’s probably not the best. Also not really sure I can comfortably fix it completely

Find a podiatrist who is/works with athletes and himself knows how to construct orthotics.

It takes some looking around.

I live in Israel and the one I finally found here was educated and trained in the UK. From his telling, they are trained differently.

It's really important to find someone who both fully understands foot structure and also actually makes orthotics.
Otherwise, you are stuck in the middle of warring sides...

Like a lot of the pure orthotics guys will take a standing cast of your feet. As my guy explained- that's actually totally wrong, because what you are doing is capturing the problem.
The preferred way is to lie on your stomach and have the professional align your foot optimally a d take a cast of that! Capturing how you want your foot to distribute weight, etc.

These orthotics took me months to get used to..but are now amazing.

 

[Brett Jones]

I would begin with a movement screen (FMS) and see if there are areas of opportunity in your movement baseline.

This will also help address the confusion on what to do about this.

Personally I use a generous outturn for squats and hinges but walk with my feet in pretty good alignment—this is based on my hip structure.

 

[jozko]

I have just responded another post on this forum and you may find it useful too, although duck feet is not explicitly mentioned there:

Other/Mixed - cure for flat feet?!

I have genetic flat feet.Like really flat. To quote my orthopedist " I have never seen feet this flat ". Flat feet and weak hamstrings have made running hell for me with a non stop string of injuries. For the past 6 years if I ran anything more then 50 feet my entire shin would explode in...

www.strongfirst.com

Of course, the best what you can do is to consult it with a good medical professional, but sometimes it's hard to find them.

 

[joemac]

Thank you for the responses.

How extreme are we talking?

5-15 degrees of toe-out when squatting?

That's pretty normal.

Or are you more like 45 degrees?

That would seem excessive.

I would say that when "naturally" trying a knees over toes squat on the ground, that my right foot is maybe 15-20 degrees to the right.
I am practicing deep squats with no weights on a slant board, so there I am able to "force" my feet to be straight.

There are a LOT of professional and elite athletes that perform very well with asymmetries. I would not get hung up on it unless you are having discomfort, especially discomfort on only one side of the body. If you feel that you ARE having issues, then I would be happy to link some resources here, as well as my recommendations based on my own experience fixing the exact issue you describe in myself.

I don't think its a MAJOR issue, but I'm not sure. My knee injury is very mysterious to me. I figure its worth a short. I would appreciate any resource you have that I might try out.

It’s hard to know what to do for an intervention without knowing the root cause for your positional challenges. A common source is a lack of ankle Dorsiflexion which leads to compensation via ankle pronation; the fix for that would be improving ankle dorsiflexion. That would be the totally wrong intervention, though, if that wasn’t your issue and it was instead a bony abnormality or a strength imbalance.

Do you have a physical therapist/physio who could assess you?

I have a physical therapist, so I will bring it up with her.

I have duck feet too, I used to get poked fun of by my high school baseball teammates when running the bases. I’ve noticed I also tend to drag my heels when I walk as my work boots always have major heel wear. I don’t know how much this effects the rest of my body but I’m sure it’s probably not the best. Also not really sure I can comfortably fix it completely

I wear flat Converse shoes both in the gym and outside. I notice that when I walk that I occasionally accidentally drag my right heel. Its weird.

I would begin with a movement screen (FMS) and see if there are areas of opportunity in your movement baseline.

I have never heard of this. Do you have any recommended resources? I'm not sure how to find professional who can perform this.

 

[Brett Jones]

You can search for a certified member (via the link below) and you will find many StrongFirst Instructors that also use the FMS through the Certified Instructor search here on the StrongFirst website.
FInd a StrongFirst Certified Instructor
Members List | Functional Movement Systems

I would be hesitant in forcing the feet straight ahead for squats, swings etc.

Setting a baseline for how you move and addressing any areas of opportunity will provide better direction IMO.

 

[bluejeff]

I don't think its a MAJOR issue, but I'm not sure. My knee injury is very mysterious to me. I figure its worth a short. I would appreciate any resource you have that I might try out.

Ask your physical therapist about 90/90 breathing. I will link a video below, but I give it a lot of credit for helping me with outturned feet.

In short, for a number of potential reasons, outturned feet mean you are likely not using your hamstrings, adductors and glutes enough when upright or walking. It is normal to have a degree of turning out, but it can often be excessive. Also, having one foot significantly turned out more than the other, on top of a "mysterious knee injury" seems like there are some things that can be improved.

The video below demonstrates the 90/90 hip lift + breathing position. While he tacks on an additional posture to stretch the pecs, it's not necessary. The important parts are:

-feet "walking distance apart;" meaning as wide as you would comfortably walk
-toes pointed at the ceiling; "feet straight ahead"
-foot contact with the wall, this one is especially important imo: each foot should have three points of pressure/contact with the wall: the heel, the ball of the foot under the big toe, and the bone just under the little toe.
-while feeling those points of contact, push slightly into the wall, and then pull down like you are trying to wipe the paint off the wall with the soles of your feet
-as you do that, the pelvis should posteriorley tilt a bit, and the back of the hips should slightly lift off the ground. Notice that in the video he doesn't lift his hips very high! It's just enough that there's a little lift.
-next big point: the "six pack" abdominal muscles should be relaxed here. The intent of this is to be relaxed, and to feel the hamstrings and a little bit of glutes working. As you exhale, you might feel the obliques turning on, which is good, but the six pack should be relaxed.

Now just follow his breathing instructions. You can lay the arms however you'd like for now. I like to rest my palms on my lower ribs to make sure I am not flaring the ribs up. You should feel your ribcage expanding. If this is new to you, you might not feel much at first. Just practice it, and remember that the intent is to stay relaxed. About 5 breaths is one "set" for me, and I do 2-5 sets a few times a day.

Side note: he doesn't have it in this video, but gently holding a yoga block, foam roller or something between your knees might help a lot too. Just be sure it maintains that "walking distance width" I mentioned earlier.

Hope it helps.



Edit: Original strength rocking and crawling seemed to help me as well.

 

[joemac]

Setting a baseline for how you move and addressing any areas of opportunity will provide better direction IMO.

Would it be correct to say that while you shouldn't force your feet to be straight, that fixing gluts/hips/etc. should in time move your feet into proper straight alignment?

Ask your physical therapist about 90/90 breathing. I will link a video below, but I give it a lot of credit for helping me with outturned feet.

Thanks. I will try this out

 

[Brett Jones]

joemac—it might...it might not...depends on the structure and reasons behind the position(s).

 

[jayjo]

HIP CIRCLE from Marc Bell Slingshot company. Do air squats with a hip circle to train your knees to properly point out. If your knees are pointing out when you squat, then I would not worry that much about your feet. I am not a doctor or anything, but that is my opinion.

 

[Benjamin Renaud]

I have had a knee injury for some time which I think occurred due to too many turkish getups at too heavy a weight.

My knee injury is very mysterious to me.

I'd make sure to check with your physical therapist to find out what your knee injury is. It might be related to your foot turnout issue, but it might not. Both might need to be worked on though to prevent more issues in the future.