Kettlebell Geoff Neupert "THE GIANT" ??

[John Grahill]

If you have not done a Double KB clean and press program before you are probably better off with giant than strong anyway. 5 RM density programs are hard and Giant is no joke at 10RM. But yeah the manual and videos are worth it. I cleaned up my clean.

Well, I mostly agree. The Strong Program is excellent. In phase 1 it's not a density protocol and I have used it to get strong and comfortable with a pair of bells. My rests are generous during phase 1 and each workout ends after a set number of reps/sets are completed. However I at this point am preferring the Giant protocols over phase 2 of Strong. In phase 2 you are supposed to keep the rests at 2 minutes or less. This gets quite stressful as the weeks go by. The autoregulation of the Giant makes it more "enjoyable".....

I can see doing Strong phase 1, then the Giant 3.0, then the Giant 2.0 , etc. so the good news is that the marriage of the two programs could work too!

 

[Stuart Elliott]

Confess to being a little excited that @Harald Motz is also doing the Giant!

 

[patterner]

Confess to being a little excited that @Harald Motz is also doing the Giant!

When Harald does the same program I'm doing I automatically feel like 17% stronger.

Since this is the first time that's happened, it's a new feeling.

 

[guardian7]

Well, I mostly agree. The Strong Program is excellent. In phase 1 it's not a density protocol and I have used it to get strong and comfortable with a pair of bells. My rests are generous during phase 1 and each workout ends after a set number of reps/sets are completed. However I at this point am preferring the Giant protocols over phase 2 of Strong. In phase 2 you are supposed to keep the rests at 2 minutes or less. This gets quite stressful as the weeks go by. The autoregulation of the Giant makes it more "enjoyable".....

I can see doing Strong phase 1, then the Giant 3.0, then the Giant 2.0 , etc. so the good news is that the marriage of the two programs could work too!

It is interesting to note that SF, in S&S and other programs, is moving more towards autoregulation and density programming as well. I don't think I will go back to fixed rep and set schemes. Sometime you have an off day. Variability in workouts is good. The exception might be barbell training on a periodization program.

 

[John K]

It is interesting to note that SF, in S&S and other programs, is moving more towards autoregulation and density programming as well. I don't think I will go back to fixed rep and set schemes. Sometime you have an off day. Variability in workouts is good.

Very much in agreement here. My only caveat is I put a lot of pressure on myself to exceed the reps each week, which after a couple months is exhausting mentally.

 

[guardian7]

Very much in agreement here. My only caveat is I put a lot of pressure on myself to exceed the reps each week, which after a couple months is exhausting mentally.

I didn't say it was easier! I like the measuring aspect but I am old enough to know that just getting a bit better and to keep going is all I need. Having said that, the 30 min period helps control overtraining and put a brake on training while exhausted or poor form. It is not surpass reps but improve in the same time period right? It is different from as fast as possible or as much as possible. Neither crossfit nor working to complete muscle failure bodybuilding, but enough to stimulate growth and recover with constant progression. A happy medium I think. The time limit is key for me.

 

[54321]

When Harald does the same program I'm doing I automatically feel like 17% stronger.

Since this is the first time that's happened, it's a new feeling.

That’s good!! I’m pretty sure I’d just feel woefully inferior! I’m glad I’m starting the ROP!! Lol

 

[John Grahill]

Very much in agreement here. My only caveat is I put a lot of pressure on myself to exceed the reps each week, which after a couple months is exhausting mentally.

Two things to remember in order to ease some of the exhaustion. First up, each segment is only 4 weeks and secondly, even just adding one rep from your last week is an "improvement". Additionally, and I've done this myself, I've called it a win and walked just because I finished what I did in my last week's workout a little faster. It was doing sets of 9s. I finished what I had done in 29 minutes in like 27 minutes. I knew I wouldn't have recovered sufficiently to add another full set before the 30 minute mark so I quit for the day.

 

[John K]

Two things to remember in order to ease some of the exhaustion. First up, each segment is only 4 weeks and secondly, even just adding one rep from your last week is an "improvement". Additionally, and I've done this myself, I've called it a win and walked just because I finished what I did in my last week's workout a little faster. It was doing sets of 9s. I finished what I had done in 29 minutes in like 27 minutes. I knew I wouldn't have recovered sufficiently to add another full set before the 30 minute mark so I quit for the day.

I've been trying to internalize your wisdom and not be so greedy. I would definitely benefit from it! Thanks

 

[John Grahill]

I've been trying to internalize your wisdom and not be so greedy. I would definitely benefit from it! Thanks

Well, that's very nice to hear but I certainly don't feel full of wisdom! It's just that I have done density type programs before and have had the wheels come off if ya know what I mean! Looking back I think had I used a little more autoregulation I would have gotten more out of them.

 

[Harald Motz]

On autoregulation:

I use the hr-monitor a lot. For endurance and strengthwork too. I literally built my A+A around it. I usually started my 5 reps of heavier on arm snatches between 110 - 120 bpm.

Giant's doubles two days ago I went around 115 bpm again - got into good flow with that.

today's triples I started at 110bpm too...heavy triples are a different animal than doubles...next time I will start at around 100bpm.

At the start recoveries are shorter later it takes longer to get to hr baseline. From my experience hr monitoring is a pretty foolproof and practical way to get autoregulated. Hr is a pretty decent window into the organism. It is not the end of all, but it is pretty practical. As a side effect you learn how you feel when ready.

 

[John Grahill]

I agree with Harold regarding HR. It also shows me improvements when doing more work as a program progresses and my HR is lower than doing less overall work at the start of it.

 

[Eyetic]

I use the hr-monitor a lot.

chest strap right?

 

[guardian7]

Even this old guy has started GIANT, albeit very gently. Bought “Strong” as well for the technique guidance. First session was great!

Jim, you won't be disappointed. I can just manage it at my age 52 and level. It was difficult to start but now I am putting up much more volume. One workout away from finishing the program. Week 3 is the money week. I cleaned up my form in the first couple of weeks and my body got used to the shock of cleaning every rep. I plan to repeat the program this month.

 

[Geoff Neupert]

If you have not done a Double KB clean and press program before you are probably better off with giant than strong anyway. 5 RM density programs are hard and Giant is no joke at 10RM. But yeah the manual and videos are worth it. I cleaned up my clean.

Well, the benefit of "Strong!" over THE GIANT is that the whole first phase has A LOT of singles in it. So you can really practice getting high quality reps in without being concerned about what's left in the tank for the next rep or reps.

The downside is the 4-5RM. That load can be heavy for people with current or previous "issues." The 10RM is easier in that respect, and allows for more blood flow to the tissues, and more opportunities to correct technique, that can alleviate said "issues."

And thanks for the feedback - glad the videos helped!

 

[Geoff Neupert]

I didn't say it was easier! I like the measuring aspect but I am old enough to know that just getting a bit better and to keep going is all I need. Having said that, the 30 min period helps control overtraining and put a brake on training while exhausted or poor form. It is not surpass reps but improve in the same time period right? It is different from as fast as possible or as much as possible. Neither crossfit nor working to complete muscle failure bodybuilding, but enough to stimulate growth and recover with constant progression. A happy medium I think. The time limit is key for me.

I think you're spot on here and you're corroborating the reason why I limit these programs to 30 minutes:

Long enough to get "enough" high quality work in; not quite long enough to [completely] trash yourself.

 

[guardian7]

Well, the benefit of "Strong!" over THE GIANT is that the whole first phase has A LOT of singles in it. So you can really practice getting high quality reps in without being concerned about what's left in the tank for the next rep or reps.

The downside is the 4-5RM. That load can be heavy for people with current or previous "issues." The 10RM is easier in that respect, and allows for more blood flow to the tissues, and more opportunities to correct technique, that can alleviate said "issues."

And thanks for the feedback - glad the videos helped!

I would continue to market GIANT and STRONG as a package discount. Guys like me viewed the videos for part 1 of Strong while doing the giant but I will be ready and motivated for Strong someday after doing the Giant, which was a confidence booster.

 

[guardian7]

I think you're spot on here and you're corroborating the reason why I limit these programs to 30 minutes:

Long enough to get "enough" high quality work in; not quite long enough to [completely] trash yourself.

There is a mental/motivation component too. If I can't find 35 min for a workout at home that I can adjust depending on my physical condition and stress then I am lying to myself.

 

[John Grahill]

Well, the benefit of "Strong!" over THE GIANT is that the whole first phase has A LOT of singles in it. So you can really practice getting high quality reps in without being concerned about what's left in the tank for the next rep or reps.

The downside is the 4-5RM. That load can be heavy for people with current or previous "issues." The 10RM is easier in that respect, and allows for more blood flow to the tissues, and more opportunities to correct technique, that can alleviate said "issues."

And thanks for the feedback - glad the videos helped!

I believe there can absolutely be a happy "marriage" of Strong and the Giant. Think Phase 1 Strong for 8 weeks, then the Giant 3.0 for 4 weeks then the 1 series from the Giant or the "slow and steady" from Strong. Would work well in my opinion.

 

[Brandon Trahan]

I got the email, detailing this program. Seems to be a Clean and Press program (or multiple programs).

Anyone buy and care to give a quick comparison to KB Strong or other programs?

Thanks

@Geoff Neupert had me on this and I was able to do it with my 32’s. I got stupid strong and was able to rag doll people on the mats in Jiu Jitsu. The program works extremely well.