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Off-Topic Hypertrophy

Bookman

First Post
Hi,

Is it possible to get a good amount of hypertrophy while doing grease the groove? My main goal is to make the muscle bigger. Let's say for something like pullups to make my back bigger.

I read some lactic acid is needed for hypertrophy but with grease the groove I always leave some reps in the tank before the burning sensation and failure set in.

Or would I just be better off doing a bodybuilding type workout with some other exercise?
 

Eyetic

Level 5 Valued Member
Highly difficult, depends on your current state...i'd opt for a hypetrophy program otherwise keep going GTG and during the last set of the day keep going till failure...but true failure...no more reps in the tank for the day :D
 

Don Fairbanks

SFG II
Certified Instructor
Hi,

Is it possible to get a good amount of hypertrophy while doing grease the groove? My main goal is to make the muscle bigger. Let's say for something like pullups to make my back bigger.

I read some lactic acid is needed for hypertrophy but with grease the groove I always leave some reps in the tank before the burning sensation and failure set in.

Or would I just be better off doing a bodybuilding type workout with some other exercise?
Interesting vid on hypertrophy/strength.

 

3letterslong

Level 5 Valued Member
The general consensus around here is that you can't make hypertrophy gains with GTG, but Kboges on youtube has a hypertophy program that's basically GTG with higher reps and people like whatsisface have hypertrophy programs that are exactly GTG (High Frequency Training, the PLP Challenge):


I'm not sure what to think because I've never really tried it myself, but you might be interested in following up with their programs.
 

watchnerd

Level 7 Valued Member
Interesting vid on hypertrophy/strength.


Yeah, it appears it's how many hard sets you do per week, and if that volume increases over time, that seems to be the main driver of hypertrophy.

Doesn't matter much if I'm doing 6, 12, or 18 reps (as long as I'm going to fatigue), as long as my sets are increasing from 2 to 3 to 4 per session over a cycle.
 
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watchnerd

Level 7 Valued Member
The general consensus around here is that you can't make hypertrophy gains with GTG, but Kboges on youtube has a hypertophy program that's basically GTG with higher reps and people like whatsisface have hypertrophy programs that are exactly GTG (High Frequency Training, the PLP Challenge):


I'm not sure what to think because I've never really tried it myself, but you might be interested in following up with their programs.

I think there is a huge difference in mental focus between the two approaches.

GTG is about practicing a skill, and whenever I do something GTG, I'm putting a lot of mental energy into 'skilling up' -- perfecting form.

Whereas if I'm just ripping out bicep curl pump sets daily, I wouldn't call that GTG, despite doing it daily, because I'm not trying to 'skill up' on curls, I'm just going for the pump.

I can (somewhat) mindlessly watch or listen to something else if I'm just doing pump work.

I can't do that with GTG.
 
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3letterslong

Level 5 Valued Member
I think there is a huge difference in mental focus between the two approaches.

GTG is about practicing a skill, and whenever I do something GTG, I'm putting a lot of mental energy into 'skilling up' -- perfecting form.

Whereas if I'm just ripping out bicep curl pump sets daily, I wouldn't call that GTG, despite doing it daily, because I'm not trying to 'skill up' on curls, I'm just going for the pump.

I can (somewhat) mindlessly watch or listen to something else if I'm just doing pump work.

I can't do that with GTG.

I see what you're saying, but nobody is talking about daily bicep curls. Is there really a difference between you doing 100 perfect pull-ups every day and another guy doing 100 perfect pull-ups every day? These guys aren't talking about sloppy reps that exhaust the muscles and inhibit your ability to repeat the workout tomorrow: they stress perfect form and fatigue management.
 

3letterslong

Level 5 Valued Member
Yeah, it appears it's how many hard sets you do per week, and if that volume increases over time, that seems to be the main driver of hypertrophy.

Doesn't matter much if I'm doing 6, 12, or 18 reps (as long as I'm going to fatigue), as long as my sets are increasing from 2 to 3 to 4 per session over a cycle.
I'm bookmarking this post for my next hypertrophy block, btw.
 

watchnerd

Level 7 Valued Member
I'm bookmarking this post for my next hypertrophy block, btw.

For more detail, check out:

2. When training protocols are matched for number of sets, even with very different training volumes, they generally result in similar levels of muscle growth.

 

Adachi

Level 6 Valued Member
Interesting vid on hypertrophy/strength.

Tonnage governs mass.

interesting.

gonna experiment - start doing 2,3,2,3,etc instead of 5,3,2,5,3,2 etc with my kettlebell press and see how my shoulders like it, a little more like a-la the bear program.

looking for some growth and some strength in the press.

if tonnage wins out - then we should be good.
2 questions to answer -
1. which rep scheme delivers higher tonnage for me?
2. does that extra tonnage deliver in a 4-6 week period?
 
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watchnerd

Level 7 Valued Member
Tonnage governs mass.

Not really, according to research from the last 2 decades.

Rep-Ranges.png
 

3letterslong

Level 5 Valued Member
Here's an article by Dan John that I've always liked:


EDIT: somewhat unrelated, has Dan John ever talked about incorporating calisthenics? I don't think I've ever seen him cover the topic, but I'd love to read his thoughts on it.
 
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North Coast Miller

Level 8 Valued Member
Bottom line GTG is not good for hypertrophy. In some examples it isn’t good for local endurance either.

For lean mass gain you need a solid dose of intensity of effort + tension + metabolite accumulation + lean foodstuffs heavy on the protein + incremental increase in output demand.

Lacking any other yardstick, use DeLorme as a baseline against which to compare other approaches. Thib’s “Best Darn Workout Plan for Natural Lifters” is another.
 

Adachi

Level 6 Valued Member
Screenshot_20220512-181326.jpg

So this chart seems to indicate...

6/7 indicate no difference in mass gained between different rep ranges used.

1/7 indicates no mass gained above 20 reps.

This didn't seem to stand in contravention with the Tokyo study.

Tonnage governs mass.
 

watchnerd

Level 7 Valued Member
Tonnage governs mass.

Well, that's not the conclusion drawn by the meta analysis, because volume-load is controlled for in several of the studies:

4. At least when talking about hypertrophy-based training, it’s more useful to think of “training volume” as “total number of hard sets per muscle” than “sets x reps x load.”

Tonnage being sets x reps x load.

You may wish to read the full article to understand in more detail.

 
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Adachi

Level 6 Valued Member
So, [from the article] for purposes of mass building...
Rep range <20 reps
Loads >65%
Sets ~9 & diminishing returns on more sets.

So more or less, almost any and everything I've seen from StrongFirst.

More sets means more tonnage.

Phrased your way...

for purposes of optimization of time spent, target 9 sets within loading parameters.

For maximization of net mass gained, maximize sets per week.
 
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