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Bodyweight Mobility Routine suggestions

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B.Hetzler said:
@Marlon Leon - several good points. But we are quite a ways into this discussion, and have used 'reset' several times. What exactly are we 'resetting'?

I don't have any desire to move like a baby. While I appreciate how babies move, even the goal of a baby isn't to move like a baby - their goal is to become an optimal human, which requires a lot more than rolling and crawling. Why, after a baby has progressed past crawling in their development, do they rarely revert back to it ? Once a kid can walk, that is their preferred form of locomotion-they don't reset with crawling.
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In addition maybe just a few things to what has been said above. Reset is not a technical term, but just a metaphor. Often when a computer fails it helps to reset it. So when a person has trained in bad movement habits it might help go back to "reset" it. As example if a person lost the ability to squat why not go back and start rocking. And from there the movement pattern can be quickly restored.
The idea of OS is using these movements or resets to regain the ability to move freely. Running and sprinting are resets as well. So is walking. The other movements such as crawling help the body to prepare for them. Thus, OS is a way to build a foundation to move well, but not the end point.
On a personal note it helped me with lifting as well as dancing Tango.

The goal of OS is to be free to move like when you were as a child. So to be able to sprint without a warm up like when you played hide and seek without worrying about limping afterwards.

I think this goes in the same direction what Pavel spoke about warm ups. I paraphrase but he said that you shouldn't need warmups. That you should br able to lift heavy cold.

One more thing. Somebody wrote above that many ways lead to Rome but you have to walk them. That is true. I believe the mobility routines like the ones by Maxwell or Pavel work. I just couldn't make myself do it. I got bored. OS is basically playing on the ground with the freedom and encouragement to explore the movements and to find variations or combinations that feel good.

FYI they publish on the OS YouTube channel weekly new suggestions and variations in case you'd like to try some of the movements.
 
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Marlon Leon said:
Somebody wrote above that many ways lead to Rome but you have to walk them. That is true. I believe the mobility routines like the ones by Maxwell or Pavel work. I just couldn't make myself do it. I got bored. OS is basically playing on the ground with the freedom and encouragement to explore the movements and to find variations or combinations that feel good.
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This is a very good point, IMHO.

-S-
 
I was thinking about OS and this thread this morning when I took my dog out our walk.

I'm still not sure what reasonable expectations for Original Strength are. "You were made to move," is very general. I'm 34 and don't have any major impediments or pain. But like I mentioned earlier, I need to elevate my pelvis to do a proper forward fold. When I do an overhead squat with the bar, I don't have any issues whatsoever. I sink right down, neutral, upright spine, shoulders opening way up, weight on my mid-foot. When I try it with just bodyweight, I'll fall back if I don't lean forward, and my arms shoot forward about 45 degrees. I know that because I just tried ;) Downward dog seems like the overhead squat of the yoga world, which is why I think so many people use it as a marker. These movements that open up everything just feel good.

I've enjoyed the 10 minute reset so far, and I also enjoy re-connecting with my short yoga practice. I may try to do OS earlier in the day, and the yoga thing in the evening. I could see taking pics of a bodyweight overhead squat to measure progress, but there are only so many things in life we can be methodical or anal about, and I think I'm at my limit; I'll just enjoy the process.
 
Hey @jca17 ,

i chose the warm up of mobility conditioining by mark lauren and some neck training to be my new routine.
What do you think of me switching mobility programs every half year?
 
For a short mobility routine, also worth a look at Scott Sonnon's Intu-Flow. It's on YouTube, and you can get done in ten minutes once you know it and no longer need the video.
 
I think being interested in what you are doing is very important. Sometimes its good to seek the discipline to FIND interest in what is otherwise mundane, but that in itself is a kind of training that can drain your resources. If you are bored with something, move on, take what you learned from the practice, and start fresh with a better understanding of the learning process. I think committing for 12 week chunks is pretty important though. If someone is changing plans every 2 weeks, they probably won't be getting proefficient enough to truly adapt and benefit to training, or to learn the deeper lessons that apply to future learning. Going deep into something actually allows one to have a broader understanding than the one who always stays shallow in attempt to be broad. Josh Waitzkin has a book called The Art of Learning which goes into this. Its a very interesting read. He was the top ranked young chess player in America, had a movie made about him (Searching for Bobby Fischer) that burned him out in fame in the chess world. He quit and went on to be a world champion in tai chi push hands.
 
@JamesO, there's a wonderful saying in one of Pavel's older books - I think he calls it "old, Russian saying" or something along those lines, and it is "Understanding is just a delaying tactic." Long before we had modern science, we learned through trial and error, and we all took a very simple approach - do what works, stop doing what doesn't. I practice maybe a minute of OS rocking/nods and not even every day but, d@#$, it works great! I just instantly, magically, whatever-word-you-like-ly, feel better. Tight music relax, joints realign, and I feel like I've just been "put right." What's not to like about that.

-S-
 
"Do what works, stop doing what doesn't"

@Steve Freides I think that is a very succinct way to tie all this discussion together. I think we all may have gotten off track here debating whether OS is a be all end all routine, when perhaps we should have considered that above quote. @B.Hetzler apologies if you felt I provided any sarcasm to our discussion. In the end, anything that allows someone to move well, feel better, and be more prepared (mentally and physically) to take on the rigors of their respective ADL's and goals is going to be the best thing for them.
 
To quote Dan John - "everything works for about 6 weeks"

To quote Pavel - " Progression and variety are not the same thing"

Stop every mobility drill that you are doing and start doing Scott Sonnon's Intu-Flow that @Michael Perry recommended. It will work, it will make you feel better, it will do everything that you all are saying OS does. But is it working because it is based on SOUND principles, or is it working because it is a new and novel stimulus to the CNS?

In today's world, if you can't explain why something works and why it gets the results it gets then you aren't explaining it, you are selling it. Trial and error is great, but I'd rather bank on fewer errors and more success. The great thing about living in today's world is that we do have the science, the knowledge, and the success/failures of others to explain things.
 
In my experience, the opposite almost seems to be true. When you have to sell something by "explaining it" with scientific explanations that change every few years, that's an issue. When something has WORKED and top competitors use it to get results at the highest levels, that says WAY more than any theorizing can do. In general, theories and science pile up to back up the going belief anyways.

Experience and Skill Will Always Trump Science - StrongFirst
Also, consider what Pavel says, as Steve pointed out. Pavel's fitness speaks for the effectiveness of his principles. I remember him saying how the "science" behind muscle hypertrophy has changed numerous times over the last decades, yet 3x10 with short rests still works, regardless of how people try to explain it.
 
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B.Hetzler said:
The great thing about living in today's world is that we do have the science, the knowledge, and the success/failures of others to explain things.
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@B.Hetzler, I remain somewhat skeptical. When I was growing up, we all thought we had the science to healthy eating - man-made fats and lots of carbohydrates. We now know this isn't such great science. And there are many more such examples. I don't think one should either accept or dismiss exercise science as it relates to any practice; one should read and learn as much as is reasonably possible, and make an informed decision.

If I may share an observation from my main line of work, music, we don't talk much about why practicing makes you play the piano better. We talk about how to practice, what to practice, how different people respond to the same practice regimen differently, about how finding a good match of teacher and student is important. We regularly acknowledge that there's a lot of what's going on that no one understands for sure.

I think there is something relevant in all that for our discussion here. Many of my colleagues who teach music go about it very differently than I do, but I don't hesitate to recommend them because they, too, achieve results for their students. I talk with prospective new students about my approach and tell them the choice is theirs.

For me, there is room for all the approaches I'm familiar with that are endorsed by members of our StrongFirst family leadership because they've all proven effective. Speaking just for myself, I've had personal experience with Ground Force Method, with OS, and with FMS. I look forward to having the opportunity to chat with you in person one day about your passion, because you are obviously passionate on the subject of helping people move better and because I'd like to learn more about what you do. (I do own your book and have read it.) I have no doubt that anyone would be very fortunate to be working with you. Thank you for participating in the conversation here.

-S-
 
@jca17 who are the top competitors using OS? The science behind hypertrophy has not changed. But, as science has gotten better, as technology has advanced, and as scientists have questioned what was out there theories behind hypertrophy have advanced. There are many theories on why hypertrophy occurs, but their reasons are all valid and they have science to back up their stance. In reality, trying to develop one unified hypertrophy theory is unlikely.

To quote Einstein "if you can't explain something simply, you don't understand it well enough". What you tell people you train is one thing. In a professional discussion "because it works" isn't good enough.

We all know a neutral wrist is key to many Kettlebell lifts. I don't explain to the people I'm teaching the science behind it (unless they ask, which usually they don't). But when colleagues ask I do give them the science and the reason. If you can't do that you get left eating at the kiddie table.

@Steve Freides - I agree with almost all you said. If you could only do full get ups or just the parts of it you like for the next 10 years and that was the foundation of everything that you did which would you pick? What if musically you only picked parts of a scale to play and not the entire scale. How well would your musical pieces sound?
 
@B.Hetzler. there are many theories as to why hypertrophy occurs. Squatting heavy for many reps still works and has worked for decades.
Many top competitors have worn these balance wrist bands and sworn by it.

I don't get what has to be explained about a mobility routine. During rocking for instance I work on my hip mobility, my posture, my ankles and wrists. Why? Because they are moved. Which is just what you do in any mobility routine like intu flow.
What is different in OS is that the body works as a whole while doing these movements whereas in many routines you move joint by joint. And you build strength while doing the movements. Hence over time you need less and less.
 
Good discussion!

I personaly do both Super Joints - as morning recharge, and OS - before kettlebell/barbell lifting.

The benefit of Super Joints is attention to each of the joints - I know which of my joints need more attention/reps (past injuries), or more attention that particular morning. It became a habit, together with Chinese breathing exercises/calisthenics, excellent way how to start the day.

OS is fun + movement, from the ground up. Excellent option: light kettlebell, and 101 variations of get-up. I do it because I like it, not necessarily that I need it. If i stop doing it, I may find out.

5, 10 minutes - or nothing, just walking to the heavy bell and rock'n'roll with no warmup/move prep at all.

@B.Hetzler love your book - it kind of joined the FMS - DNS - StrongFirst dots.
 
So before this devolves into an "I'm right" sort of argument...

This has been a good thread with respectful debate, questions and answers. Well done by all.

My caveat - have a baseline for your movement
Obviously I recommend FMS as a repeatable baseline etc...

Rock, roll, stretch and move - have fun and make sure it feels good and doesn't cause pain
 
@Marlon Leon - up to this point nothing has been explained about a mobility routine. If your impression of a good mobility routine is just to improve ROM and how you feel, then that is about 1/4 of the benefits, but I'm sure OS has explained all of that.

@Pavel Macek - thank you. that was my purpose, connect all the dots so that people wouldn't just be doing random things from different philosophies hoping for a better outcome.
 
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