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Other/Mixed Mountain Strong

Other strength modalities (e.g., Clubs), mixed strength modalities (e.g., combined kettlebell and barbell), other goals (flexibility)
offwidth said:
uphillathlete.com

Training for Trail Running: Strength Training

Find out how to improve your trail running performance with strength training tips from experts in this informative podcast.
uphillathlete.com uphillathlete.com
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I thought it was interesting that she thought kettlebell swings to be a bit dangerous. Not only have I never hurt myself doing two hand swings, it is my go-to move for training around other injuries.
 
paules said:
Agreed. Not an uphill athlete but my go to template is 2 x IC, 2 x A+A, and 2-3 x Z2 sessions per week. Covers a lot of bases for someone with no specific goals other than to age well.
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I'd cook A&A on a split like this with Heavy Swings/Light Snatches:
  • 6-10 minutes EMOM x 5 Swings @ 32KG or Heavier post the IC Sessions.
  • Longer A&A session with snatches from 16KG-28KG loadings
 
Within the context of the topic (Strength Training) I thought the advice was pretty spot on. Especially things like the unilateral stuff, plus the somewhat forgotten shoulders, and so-called ‘core’.

I don’t know what her safety concern over swings were either. Especially when you consider how dangerous real trail running can be. That being said… KB swings wouldn’t even be considered as Max Strength Training anyway.
 
offwidth said:
That being said… KB swings wouldn’t even be considered as Max Strength Training anyway.
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I think that Jason Antin gives a better perspective on the Uphill Athlete max strength and strength endurance training here. A little longer listen but an excellent overview of strength/muscular endurance by Steve at the end.
podcasts.apple.com

‎Uphill Athlete Podcast: Training for Mountaineering: Strength on Apple Podcasts

‎Show Uphill Athlete Podcast, Ep Training for Mountaineering: Strength - Feb 27, 2023
podcasts.apple.com
 
SpiderLegs said:
I listened to the podcast yesterday. Fairly spot on and nothing earth shattering. Like the others have mentioned, don't know why she wasn't a fan of kettlebell swings.
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I haven’t listened to the pod. I think the concern is low back injuries. Can definitely be done when not done properly. Easier to throw someone into a TBDL. I’ve heard others express this opinion, especially with regard to the hardstyle swing. I believe it is the stress created when stopping and redirecting the momentum of the bell.
 
I have heard Derek Toshner and Kenneth Bolyard talk of the benefits of step ups and snatches for mountain pursuits. I understand how step ups might help but I am keen to understand why snatches. I am not a mountain athlete (or an athlete at all!), just keen to learn and understand. Appreciate your advice.
 
paules said:
I have heard Derek Toshner and Kenneth Bolyard talk of the benefits of step ups and snatches for mountain pursuits. I understand how step ups might help but I am keen to understand why snatches. I am not a mountain athlete (or an athlete at all!), just keen to learn and understand. Appreciate your advice.
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It’s a fair question.

Snatches seem to offer some nice ‘overall fitness’; (So-called GPP I suppose.) So, from that perspective I can see why some folks might recommend them for mountain athletes. At the end of the day one needs to look at the adaptations one is trying to drive, and is the activity in question going to support or be aligned with those. If so, then go for it. If not, then maybe rethink things.

Snatches are certainly not my tool of choice for training for the mountains.
 
paules said:
I have heard Derek Toshner and Kenneth Bolyard talk of the benefits of step ups and snatches for mountain pursuits. I understand how step ups might help but I am keen to understand why snatches. I am not a mountain athlete (or an athlete at all!), just keen to learn and understand. Appreciate your advice.
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Strong posterior chain?
 
Ran this assessement from Mountain Tactical Institute (here) with the following scores:

BW: 185 lbs

Front Squat: 235 lbs
Tactical Pullups: 8 (Better than when I was testing this back in December and I had elbow pain to get 5...I got 8 with NO pain)
Deadlift: 385 lbs (attempted 415 lbs getting not quite to lockout before my grips gave way 1.5 cm from top)
Bench: 235 lbs

Totaled up loads for bench, front squat, and deadlift and then added pullups (8 x 18.5 (10% BW) for the score below.

Score: 1003

Divided by bodyweight I got a 5.42 rating, a 'good' for a Mountain Athlete.
 
Step-ups LISS and A+A experiences?

Curious what peoples experiences are in using step-ups as part of their training for trail running and/or backpacking?

I can’t always get out onto the local trails for aerobic/endurance training days, so using them makes sense.

LISS makes sense - I have a few ledges in backyard of various heights. Through trial and error I have found a height and pace I can keep up at MAF hr.

What about for A+A? Traditional A+A tends to be power or strength based, 10seconds or less, often emom or the like. Has anyone done significantly loaded step-ups like this and found benefit from it? If so, what we’re your loads and reps/rest schema?
 
Georgiaoutdoors said:
Step-ups LISS and A+A experiences?

Curious what peoples experiences are in using step-ups as part of their training for trail running and/or backpacking?

I can’t always get out onto the local trails for aerobic/endurance training days, so using them makes sense.

LISS makes sense - I have a few ledges in backyard of various heights. Through trial and error I have found a height and pace I can keep up at MAF hr.

What about for A+A? Traditional A+A tends to be power or strength based, 10seconds or less, often emom or the like. Has anyone done significantly loaded step-ups like this and found benefit from it? If so, what we’re your loads and reps/rest schema?
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I’ve done a few over the years. Mostly when I haven’t had access to the real thing (steep rough terrain). My preferred method is weighted with boots and doing what I guess I’d call ME. (Muscular Endurance) So not LISS, nor HIT, nor heavily weighted (although these are pretty good).

I pick a target pack weight close to what I’ll be carrying, lace up the boots, and go. Usually aiming for 300m of ’elevation’ gain in a session.

IMG_1200.jpeg
 
offwidth said:
Muscular Endurance) So not LISS, nor HIT, nor heavily weighted (although these are pretty good).
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So something like light glycolytic endurance? Maybe just coming out of z2 and into z3 in 5 zone system?
offwidth said:
Usually aiming for 300m of ’elevation’ gain in a session.
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Do you measure this based on each time you end up standing on the box? I suppose this also equates to a similar elevation loss as well since there is the step down with eccentric loading.
 
Georgiaoutdoors said:
So something like light glycolytic endurance? Maybe just coming out of z2 and into z3 in 5 zone system?

Do you measure this based on each time you end up standing on the box? I suppose this also equates to a similar elevation loss as well since there is the step down with eccentric loading.
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Yes mostly Z3ish

And yes each step counts to the total. With my box that equates to about 1,000 steps.

I know that I prater on at length about how folks should just suck it up and train in whatever conditions come your way.… Heat, Snow, Cold, Rain…etc.; and I do believe that and practice it… but one needs to be smart about it as well. For instance, around here in the summertime it can hit close to 50c (like it did today). Even I would abandon a trail run or hike in favour of box steps.
 
Looking for input. While past winters have been ice climbing focused, I am planning a December Ecuador trip for seven days of whitewater paddling. In preparation, my thoughts are to start incorporating 2-3 times/week a program of kettlebell C&P, renegade rows, goblet squats, light tgu and loaded carries August-October. I would switch to Armor building complex and snatches in November/December from a conditioning standpoint. i would continue my current kayaking a couple of times a week (flat water and ww depending on water levels) and mountain biking 1/week. Rest days as needed, giving preference to kayaking days. For info, I am a 62 yo male, 5’9, 170lbs
 
mjg said:
Looking for input. While past winters have been ice climbing focused, I am planning a December Ecuador trip for seven days of whitewater paddling. In preparation, my thoughts are to start incorporating 2-3 times/week a program of kettlebell C&P, renegade rows, goblet squats, light tgu and loaded carries August-October. I would switch to Armor building complex and snatches in November/December from a conditioning standpoint. i would continue my current kayaking a couple of times a week (flat water and ww depending on water levels) and mountain biking 1/week. Rest days as needed, giving preference to kayaking days. For info, I am a 62 yo male, 5’9, 170lbs
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You gonna be kayaking or rafting in Ecuador?
 
I think what you have outlined will work well.
Instead of the Armor Building I might sub Iron Cardio.
And, like you plan on doing, I would try to get as much time on the water as possible.
 
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