Quick and Dead

SuperGirevik

More than 300 posts
It's already a best seller on Amazon! Congrats @Pavel (y)

I like this quote from Geoff:

Quite honestly, as a long-time reader of Pavel’s books (2001), a former StrongFirst Master Instructor, and someone who’s been “in the game” for almost 30 years, this could be Pavel’s best work to date. It’s THAT good. And THAT revolutionary.

If you are at all interested in becoming a better functioning human being and more productive member of society, you’d be foolish to pass up this book, especially at this dirt cheap price.
What he says in the second paragraph really helped me understand who this book is for. It's not just for athletes or people with physically high demanding jobs, it's for everyone who has the basics down and wants to go to the next level.

I'm sold. I personally don't like the OA swing (I feel I don't hinge as well as the 2H swing) but perhaps it's time we reacquaint ourselves....
 

vegpedlr

More than 500 posts
I’m curious as to why it’s for “advanced” only. I mean, swings and push ups aren’t really rocket surgery, but the TGU kinda is.

In any case I’m far from advanced anyway, so I suppose I’ll skip it for now and stick to the DMPM. Which consists of swings, push ups, and goblets.
 

Glen

Quadruple-Digit Post Count
I’m curious as to why it’s for “advanced” only. I mean, swings and push ups aren’t really rocket surgery, but the TGU kinda is.

In any case I’m far from advanced anyway, so I suppose I’ll skip it for now and stick to the DMPM. Which consists of swings, push ups, and goblets.
Movement is only one aspect of a program surely. Load, frequency, volume, speed etc need to be considered

Look at plyometric type training - virtually everyone can jump but true plyometric type loading has a suggested prerequisite of 140% of bodyweight squat as an extra point.
 

Kozushi

More than 2500 posts
I agree with this.

Let't take another fine example:

“For the next forty workouts, pick five lifts. Do them every workout. Never miss a rep, in fact, never even get close to struggling. Go as light as you need to go and don’t go over ten reps for any of the movements in a workout. It is going to seem easy. When the weights feel light, simply add more weight.”

And that's it. You do not need anything else to make Easy Strength to work. It really is that simple.

And, yes, the devil is in the details and everyone remotely interested should purchase the book to take a closer look to the finer points of the program. But it's not necessary. Not in the least.

Starting Strength can be summed it up in just two paragraphs. And that's okay.

Yes, you will miss the over-detailed whys and hows, but you don't need to know them to make the program work.

Do this, rest that , eat a lot and repeat it three times a week. Just put the work and magic will happen.

I'm going to purchase the book, but I will never follow a program which can't be summarized in four o five lines. And I'm pretty sure ANY worthy program is susceptible to that. Q&D is not an exception.
Some program that is to become a big part of my life and a large part of my physical activity is going to need some in-depth explanation to 1. convince me it is worth pursuing (almost) exclusively 2. explain to me what it will do for me, since "getting stronger" is too broad and all programs have their emphases 3. answer a good number of the "what if" and "can I" questions that are bound to come up.

For instance, so far we know this new book is about swings and pushups. Okay, so I know Pavel is a great, actually revolutionary, exercise scientist and I'm following one of his programs (S&S) religiously and another one (NW) in a supplementary way (and I think it would be dishonest to hide that I supplement these with other bodyweight moves from the Kavadlo brothers' publications, using rings and parallell bars and stuff), but if someone just tells me what the exact recipe is for this new thing, I'm not going to be sold on just this: "do X number of swings and X number of pushups in so many seconds X number of times a day/week". I'm quite solid with what I'm doing. I'll need the book to answer for me what the benefits are of moving onto this program or to what degree, what room it leaves for other things etc. I'm far from "knowledgeable" about exercise theory, but I've come a long way since 3.5 years ago when I started S&S and asking questions here like a fire hose gone AWOL. I've become a discriminating reader and amateur strength enthusiast. If the author of the program has X number of pages to express his hows and whys, given again the amount of time and effort I could end up pouring into this program, I'm all eyes and ears!

I'm not a SF trainer or anything. It is a privilege that they let me participate here and I know that I have made many blunders over the years. I really do think that knowledge is real power and thus purchasing a book by a great expert is more than worth the couple bucks and few hours of time it costs to buy and read.
 
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Steve Freides

Forum Administrator
Staff member
Senior Certified Instructor

Alan Mackey

More than 300 posts
Some program that is to become a big part of my life and a large part of my physical activity is going to need some in-depth explanation to 1. convince me it is worth pursuing (almost) exclusively 2. explain to me what it will do for me, since "getting stronger" is too broad and all programs have their emphases 3. answer a good number of the "what if" and "can I" questions that are bound to come up.

For instance, so far we know this new book is about swings and pushups. Okay, so I know Pavel is a great, actually revolutionary, exercise scientist and I'm following one of his programs (S&S) religiously and another one (NW) in a supplementary way (and I think it would be dishonest to hide that I supplement these with other bodyweight moves from the Kavadlo brothers' publications, using rings and parallell bars and stuff), but if someone just tells me what the exact recipe is for this new thing, I'm not going to be sold on just this: "do X number of swings and X number of pushups in so many seconds X number of times a day/week". I'm quite solid with what I'm doing. I'll need the book to answer for me what the benefits are of moving onto this program or to what degree, what room it leaves for other things etc. I'm far from "knowledgeable" about exercise theory, but I've come a long way since 3.5 years ago when I started S&S and asking questions here like a fire hose gone AWOL. I've become a discriminating reader and amateur strength enthusiast. If the author of the program has X number of pages to express his hows and whys, given again the amount of time and effort I could end up pouring into this program, I'm all eyes and ears!

I'm not a SF trainer or anything. It is a privilege that they let me participate here and I know that I have made many blunders over the years. I really do think that knowledge is real power and thus purchasing a book by a great expert is more than worth the couple bucks and few hours of time in costs to buy and read.
Don't get me wrong. I strongly recommend anyone to purchase the book, mainly because the author(s) deserve some kind of reward and because in-depth knowledge is always better.

But, having said that...

You don't need to know the whys to make S&S or 5/3/1 work. You just need to do the work.

Let me rephrase that: the only thing you really need to make kata guruma work are uchikomi and, later on, randori. Nothing else is needed.

But, of course, having some knowledge of why things work might be even better.
 

Kozushi

More than 2500 posts
Don't get me wrong. I strongly recommend anyone to purchase the book, mainly because the author(s) deserve some kind of reward and because in-depth knowledge is always better.

But, having said that...

You don't need to know the whys to make S&S or 5/3/1 work. You just need to do the work.

Let me rephrase that: the only thing you really need to make kata guruma work are uchikomi and, later on, randori. Nothing else is needed.

But, of course, having some knowledge of why things work might be even better.
:)

Careful with the judo reference, hahaha! Yes, all you absolutely need to be able to make kata guruma work are indeed uchikomi and randori, yes, but oh boy, the tactical setups are hugely important to make them work on someone worth their salt. I guess you could call the tactical stuff part of the uchikomi, but... they aren't part of what most people mean by uchikomi.

Taking the TGUs in S&S, even just little details like that you're trying to hold the positions for longer rather than executing the movement quicker, things like this make the book worth it.

I know what you mean. It's like my recent discussion about asking versus not asking questions to a coach on a different thread - there's a happy medium to things. Sure, an exercise program can be summarized in a page, yes. You're right of course.
 

Steve Freides

Forum Administrator
Staff member
Senior Certified Instructor
Don't get me wrong. I strongly recommend anyone to purchase the book, mainly because the author(s) deserve some kind of reward and because in-depth knowledge is always better.

But, having said that...

You don't need to know the whys to make S&S or 5/3/1 work. You just need to do the work.

Let me rephrase that: the only thing you really need to make kata guruma work are uchikomi and, later on, randori. Nothing else is needed.
Alan, I could not disagree more strongly. Knowing what to do without know something of why is, at best, shallow, and at worst, a prescription for misunderstanding, for boredom and, ultimately, for increased risk of injury - penny wise and pound foolish. There is no good reason _not_ to try to understand why, and there is no good reason not to read the book in order to improve your chances for success.

But, of course, having some knowledge of why things work might be even better.
I can accept that, so long as we change "might be" to "certainly would be."

-S-
 

SuperGirevik

More than 300 posts
You don't need to know the whys to make S&S or 5/3/1 work.
But without knowing the whys, we are just blindly following others, IMHO.

I'm not going to switch from my current routine to push-ups and swings JUST because Pavel says I should. I need to know why and how this program will benefit me. I changed my way of training with barbells thanks to the excellent explanation Pavel gave in PTTP. Knowing the whys will also help you appreciate the program, which will help you stick with it.

Plus, besides knowing the whys, we should also know the hows in order to properly apply to program.
 

Kozushi

More than 2500 posts
But without knowing the whys, we are just blindly following others, IMHO.

I'm not going to switch from my current routine to push-ups and swings JUST because Pavel says I should. I need to know why and how this program will benefit me. I changed my way of training with barbells thanks to the excellent explanation Pavel gave in PTTP. Knowing the whys will also help you appreciate the program, which will help you stick with it.

Plus, besides knowing the whys, we should also know the hows in order to properly apply to program.
I too will only switch (if this is even the point) if convinced the new program is better for me than S&S and NW plus the few other callisthenics moves I do.
 

Alan Mackey

More than 300 posts
But without knowing the whys, we are just blindly following others, IMHO.
That's precisely what happen everyday to most people when using their technology gadgets. As far as they are concerned, tv sets, cell phones, planes and satellites "magically" work.

I'm not going to switch from my current routine to push-ups and swings JUST because Pavel says I should.
I get where you're coming from and I'm the same. But most people wouldn't give a damn and they still make progress when following ANY program.

Over-analyzing things is a common trait we share. And trying to constantly improve any program we lay our eyes on is too.

That's why, quite frequently, we make slower progress instead just trusting the program and do the work.

Having your appendix removed is way more dangerous than following blindly S&S. And yet, most people won't try to tell the surgeon how to do his work.

And I say this being the guy who is always trying to understand everything I come across (and subconsciously trying to find gaps).

I need to know why and how this program will benefit me. I changed my way of training with barbells thanks to the excellent explanation Pavel gave in PTTP. Knowing the whys will also help you appreciate the program, which will help you stick with it.
I agree.

That's why, after having dissected and analized dozens of Dan John's programs, I trust him implicitly.

But I still experience the urge to know the why.

Plus, besides knowing the whys, we should also know the hows in order to properly apply to program.
Most professional athletes don't know the whys and, still, the perform superbly.

Knowing the whys is always better. Always.

But that doesn't mean you will follow the program as is it, thus reaping the full benefits.

I still think we are saying the same thing... but the wording we use is a bit different.
 

Anna C

More than 5000 posts
Elite Certified Instructor
The real money is made where the real value is...events, courses, certifications, and personal instruction.
I've probably spent more of that "real value" than just about anyone, having attended ALL of the StrongFirst courses and certs. I understand those are time- and cost-prohibitive for a lot of people, but the cost of a book being in any way an issue truly puzzles me. Why quibble about whether to spend $13 for a book when you spend so much time on your training and writing about training here on the forum? No matter who you are or what you do, your own time is easily more valuable than that! If it's interesting enough to spend eve a few minutes thinking or writing about, you should buy the book, IMO.

I don't know if I'll do the program, but I look forward to discussions about it just as I like discussions here about S&S. Actually I might do the program just so I can participate in discussions more productively. Somehow I just like talking to you people about StrongFirst stuff. That's why I've been around here for 5 years. :)
 

Olive

Double-Digit Post Count
Your new estimated delivery date is: Tuesday, August 27, 2019 - Monday, September 23, 2019 :eek:

Gonna stick to S&S a few more weeks then...
 
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