Quick and Dead

Steve W.

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I thought it was a good comparison between the two types of workout. Why would you say it’s corny?
I don't know about "corny," but I do think it's a strange analogy.

Okay, the first leopard is impressively powerful and badass. Cool, I'd want to be like that leopard. If the story stopped there, it would make sense as an illustration of the value of overwhelming physical power.

But the second leopard is old and injured. It doesn't struggle to make the kill because of it's training or nature, but because of time and circumstance. The injury is "a common hazard to alpha predators in the wild." Age and injury catch up to all of us -- if we're lucky.

Nevertheless, the old leopard makes its kill and fights off the hyenas. That's powerful and badass in its own way. It's arguably more admirable to persist and succeed in the face of obstacles than to just take advantage of natural gifts under ideal circumstances -- and I'm at a stage of life where I relate more to the old leopard.

If the story was about a hyena who relentlessly chased down its prey with its "android work capacity" to the point where the prey collapsed from exhaustion and submitted to death, what would be the lesson? What about a pack of hyenas that let the young leopard do all the work and then succeeded in stealing the prey?

This has nothing to do with the value of the program, but the analogy invites deconstruction.
 
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Steve Freides

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Senior Certified Instructor
@Olive, as I've mentioned in other places (and I'm happy to repeat), our expectation is that amazon will move up the shipping date sometime fairly soon so that delivery should be sooner than what you indicated.

-S-
 

Sean M

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So far, no.

-S-
I understand physical inventory/logistics limitations to releasing the hard copy, but if the Kindle and audiobook versions are “done”, what is the limitation to getting it on Amazon? Or are they not “done”?
 

SuperGirevik

More than 300 posts
@Steve W. I think some people might be misinterpreting the analogy.

According to Pavel...

The second leopard hunt exemplifies the mentality of today’shigh intensity interval training.” Dramatic, inefficient, costly. I admire the old cat’s tough style, given his circumstances of age taking its toll—but his heroics are not something to emulate on a Wednesday night at the gym.
The Tale of Two Leopards: An Excerpt from The Quick and the Dead | StrongFirst

The leopards represent two different training mentalities. One is quick and powerful with minimal biological cost. The other represents an intensive workout that leaves the student panting afterwards.
 

Steve W.

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@Steve W. I think some people might be misinterpreting the analogy. According to Pavel...



The Tale of Two Leopards: An Excerpt from The Quick and the Dead | StrongFirst

The leopards represent two different training mentalities. One is quick and powerful with minimal biological cost. The other represents an intensive workout that leaves the student panting afterwards.
Neither leopard is "training" or consciously choosing its behavior. They are both PERFORMING the same task, and both performing as best they can under their circumstances. Their mentalities are not different, only their capabilities.

So I can see using the young leopard as an example of how we would like to PERFORM -- I want that leopard's CAPABILITY. But there is no difference in mentality between them.

I get the intended point of the analogy; I'm just questioning if it really illustrates that point. And, again, I realize this is irrelevant to the actual program.
 
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SuperGirevik

More than 300 posts
The following comment by Geoff's review of Q&D on Amazon caught me off guard... does this make sense to anyone else? He wrote:

Muscle mass accumulation - a pound of mass per week without bodybuilding
I can understand how a beginner could accumulate "newbie" gains at the start of a program but if this routine is really for more advanced practioners, I find it hard to think believe OA swings and push-ups would cause such an increase in muscle mass.

But I'm no expert, so I'm genuinely curious what others think of that statement.
 

SuperGirevik

More than 300 posts
@Steve W. I think you are still comparing us to the leopards in a way. Instead, you need to compare the leopards to your training, period. It's not about having the leopard's mentality or being like one of the leopards.

I can see how the analogy could be a bit confusing, especially with the added info of the second leopard having an injury and quite a few years under his belt. It's natural to automatically relate to one of them.

But in this case, they merely provide a visual description of two forms of working out:
  • Leopard #1 Workout: Quick and powerful workout that leaves gas in the tank.
  • Leopard #2 Workout: A long, exhaustive workout that leaves you panting at the end.
That's how I see at least, I'm not the author nor have I read the book. I'm basing this off the article Pavel wrote.
 

Steve Freides

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@Sean M, it's not done until amazon.com says it's done. Anyone who's ever written an app for Apple will tell you the same thing - you do it, and then you wait for them to tell you it's OK, go back and forth with them to address their concerns until they're happy, and then and only then will they make it available. I cannot vouch for the details of the process at amazon, but I am aware, through people I know, of the process with Apple, and what I know of the process with amazon suggests to me it's not dissimilar, at least in some ways.

The following comment by Geoff's review of Q&D on Amazon caught me off guard... does this make sense to anyone else? He wrote:

I can understand how a beginner could accumulate "newbie" gains at the start of a program but if this routine is really for more advanced practioners, I find it hard to think believe OA swings and push-ups would cause such an increase in muscle mass.

But I'm no expert, so I'm genuinely curious what others think of that statement.
@SuperGirevik, there are multiple protocols in the book, some of which were, indeed, reported to provide significant hypertrophy.

-S-
 

SuperGirevik

More than 300 posts
@Steve W. I'll be honest, for me it was effective... plus I love animals, especially big cats.

After reading the article, I was left with this image of a panting leopard. This mental image will hopefully help me avoid reaching the "panting" stage while doing exercises like the swing or snatch.

But that's just my opinion ;)
 

Steve W.

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@Steve W. I'll be honest, for me it was effective... plus I love animals, especially big cats.

After reading the article, I was left with this image of a panting leopard. This mental image will hopefully help me avoid reaching the "panting" stage while doing exercises like the swing or snatch.

But that's just my opinion ;)
Like I said, in the context of the excerpt I understand the intent.

But I'm left with the image of the noble old leopard, finally able to enjoy his kill, watching the retreating hyenas he has just fought off and thinking, "That's right b**ches, this is MINE!" He remembers when he used to be the first leopard, and is sad that he can't do that anymore, but still has pride that he can get the job done and survive.

"Tho' much is taken, much abides; and tho'
We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield."​
 

Steve Freides

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Senior Certified Instructor
Thanks for that info. I'm looking forward to reading the book soon.
I'll paraphrase from the book - in discussing two different protocols, Pavel says that both versions yielded similar, and excellent, performance results, and that one quickly built muscle, including some people putting on 10 lbs. Those same people then lost the new mass when they switched to the other protocol but without any loss of power or endurance.

-S-
 

Sean M

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@Sean M, it's not done until amazon.com says it's done. Anyone who's ever written an app for Apple will tell you the same thing - you do it, and then you wait for them to tell you it's OK, go back and forth with them to address their concerns until they're happy, and then and only then will they make it available. I cannot vouch for the details of the process at amazon, but I am aware, through people I know, of the process with Apple, and what I know of the process with amazon suggests to me it's not dissimilar, at least in some ways.
I guess I thought that would've been lined up such that it could actually release on 7/22... :shrug:
 
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