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Kettlebell S&S intro and questions

Ege said:
@Anna C thanks a lot. I will post it next week, there are a few mistakes that I have, I want to polish them a bit, not because of embarrassment, this is a very welcoming community, but if I can polish the mistakes that I know, you will show me the ones that I don’t know. (btw, I will also take a session from an SFG instructor on Monday, will help me polish a bit further) And today, while I was looking to S&S book again, I have recognized that you are in the book! :) This is very exciting for me…
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@Anna C Hi Anna; You have kindly offered me to view my swing form and technique. And I’ve told you that I am going to submit my video. However I have just taken my first session w SFG coach, Louka. Based on my existing injuries ( meniscus operation two months ago hence strength and muscle imbalance between legs and hips), a limiting left shoulder mobility issue due to scoliosis and not good right shoulder mobility, my stiffness overall etc. He advised me to work on fundamentals for sometime. Which I have already started. Now I don’t want to “jump over” and try to go faster than I am supposed to go. That is why, I want to submit my swing video hopefully in future once I clear roadblocks. Thanks and best.

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Ege said:
@Anna C Hi Anna; You have kindly offered me to view my swing form and technique. And I’ve told you that I am going to submit my video. However I have just taken my first session w SFG coach, Louka. Based on my existing injuries ( meniscus operation two months ago hence strength and muscle imbalance between legs and hips), a limiting left shoulder mobility issue due to scoliosis and not good right shoulder mobility, my stiffness overall etc. He advised me to work on fundamentals for sometime. Which I have already started. Now I don’t want to “jump over” and try to go faster than I am supposed to go. That is why, I want to submit my swing video hopefully in future once I clear roadblocks. Thanks and best.

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Absolutely. You are in great hands with Louka!
 
Tjerr said:
- your hike is towards the groin and should be the same point of contact as the two-arm swing. So outside forearm, inside leg. This will counter the rotation and make the movement more square.
- you lose tension on your lat, so in your hike, you van see the shoulder head comming up a bit and going down in the upward motion of the swing.
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Hi @Tjerr - yesterday and today I worked on your first point and although I didn't record anything to confirm, it feels much better, more square as you said. I will continue to work on this. Thank you again for your advice.
 
Yesterday I introduced another set of the 20kg for both TGU and swings to make it 6 sets to 4 for 16s. I was flying high. Felt fantastic. Felt like I had my swing technique down and was wanting to post more thanks to the forum! This morning though my legs just felt heavy. I did an hour endurance pace on the bike trainer 6am to 7am and then hit S&S at 6pm this evening after work. What a difference a day makes. The 20kg was killer today for the 1H swings. Made it through barely. Even my grip was going. The TGUs went well although still hard to press the 20 overhead on my right. Amazing how the second day can be so hard after flying the first one. Tomorrow is recovery.
 
Answering my own question... When I started this thread I was wondering if I was missing something by skipping the 2H swing days and simply having every 3rd day off. Since then, I have reached the full set of 20kg for both swings and TGUs and have been implementing the 2H swing every 3rd day where I now either take the 4th day off or go back to 1H swings. depending on what I do on the bike and how tired/refreshed I feel. So, 2H swings... I am growing to love them now that I am on the 20kg. They allow you to use a lot more power and aggression and I think this helps build more conditioning while still feeling relatively light compared to the 1H days where my grip is still suffering.

Incidentally, on the 2H days I am also skipping the TGU as they do add up and it doesn't end up feeling like rest day otherwise. Instead I am trying to learn the clean and press on the 2H swing days. I'm using 16kg for that currently. Still bruising my left side on the clean. Right I have got down pretty good. No idea what I am doing program wise :eek:) Current idea is 3 sets of clean/press, clean/press/press and clean/press/press/press on both sides. Thats not very taxing but it does get me practicing my clean.

Anyway. I'm pretty happy that I'm giving the 2H swing some time in my program again. My advice to myself would be not to skip it.
 
Seven months later, I’ve taken another 1H swing video. First 2 swings are 20kg and next two are 24kg. For my swings, I’ve been stuck on 20kg for a while now as 24kg was a problem both grip wise and trying to keep my shoulders packed. It’s getting better recently and am thinking I may introduce another round of 24kg soon. Maybe skip forward to the 24kg ones.
 
Looks great, @wexford. Agree, a side view would be useful too. Your alignment, set-up, hike, everything else looks great. The 24 kg seems fine and you are strong enough to use it safely. To help your transition to using it for more of your swings, add a bit more aggression to your 20 kg swings. It will help with your grip, shoulders, etc. That means an explosive upswing -- but also, I think if you move faster and more aggressively into the hinge position that will set you up for a stronger, explosive, hardstyle swing. Like this.
 
I’ll see if I can record from a different location when I get back to my bells in the new year (at in-laws currently). That room is a bit narrow and I don’t have a wide angle lens on my phone for a side view. Will see what I can do.

Interesting suggestion regarding explosiveness and speed with the 20kg. I’ll work on that also. I do feel some swings go deeper on the back swing than others and those feel better on the way up. It’s probably connected with that too. I’ll check out that link later today. Thanks @Anna C.
 
Hi @Mark Limbaga and @Anna C - I figured out I could turn my position instead of turning the camera's. I recorded first 6 of my 10 sets today. Today was the first time I managed to do 4 x 24kg sets without feeling like my grip was giving out. Taken a long time to get here but I'm progressing little by little which is a great feeling. It's my first time to see a video from this angle and I was surprised that my arms were not straight as I certainly believed they were. Anyway, if you guys have any pointers, that would be great. Thanks and Happy new year!

 
Looks good @wexford! I actually like the 24kg swings better than the 20. The 20 is fine too, but try to be a little snappier and move quicker with them; that will help your progress, I think. The 24s look really good, especially right side. Left side I think your shoulder is wandering up a bit. Really anti-shrug (pack) hard in both the hinge and plank position. Also think about keeping a big chest in the bottom position -- looking up might help (keeping eyes on the horizon throughout the swing, which is what I do), although looking down in the downswing as you are is also OK. All else looks good to me - set-up, stance, hike, hinge and plank positions, alignment, breathing - all good.

Interesting observation on the right arm bend, and that you don't have it on the left. Not a huge deal, but something you can practice eliminating as you do your 20kg swings which are becoming easier. You may have to practice with something even lighter to pattern it out.
 
Coaches, I have a question. Actually 3. This reagards the latest video.
  1. Is it ok to have that much forward knee travel? (0:54)
  2. Is it ok to initiate the hinge with the knee bend? (0:52)
  3. How much rotation is allowed? How square should we be? (1:21)
@wexford , great job!
 
Ege said:
@Anna C Hi Anna; You have kindly offered me to view my swing form and technique. And I’ve told you that I am going to submit my video. However I have just taken my first session w SFG coach, Louka. Based on my existing injuries ( meniscus operation two months ago hence strength and muscle imbalance between legs and hips), a limiting left shoulder mobility issue due to scoliosis and not good right shoulder mobility, my stiffness overall etc. He advised me to work on fundamentals for sometime. Which I have already started. Now I don’t want to “jump over” and try to go faster than I am supposed to go. That is why, I want to submit my swing video hopefully in future once I clear roadblocks. Thanks and best.

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I see that Brett Jones like this old post from me :). 8 months have passed, but my passion did not vanish. It is not easy to erase the wrong doings of 407 years of Sedentary life, injuries, and genetic unlucky things, but the progress is still going on, and I get fitter, stronger while I prepare my self for S&S. I don’t think everyone would need as long as a prep as I need. But some people need sometime, which is totally okay, this is a result of great screening “feature” of S&S. Oh, I can not squat?! Oh I can’t hinge? Oh I can not raise my arms over my head :)) dude what were you thinking about your body?!?

And I was following other programs w ease prior to S&S without recognizing that I have lost the most fundamental human movement patterns..
 
Pavel.Kosenkov said:
Coaches, I have a question. Actually 3. This reagards the latest video.
  1. Is it ok to have that much forward knee travel? (0:54)
  2. Is it ok to initiate the hinge with the knee bend? (0:52)
  3. How much rotation is allowed? How square should we be? (1:21)
@wexford , great job!
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Generally speaking I think you're spotting good things which, yes, could be improved, but are fairly minor in the scope of things. Interested to hear other's views.

I think it's OK to have that much forward knee travel. I tend to have that myself, especially when the weight is heavy, and more so with snatches than swings. But you're right that it can be very helpful (and is generally recommended) to seek to have more vertical shins -- that helps to bring the hips back more, which can result in a more effective hinge position. That is generally the way the swing is taught by SFGs and in S&S; i.e. to mimic the deadlift, to reach the hips back, like with the touch the wall drill, broomstick drill, etc.

I would say the hinge should be initiated with hips and knees bending simultaneously, which he seems to be doing. But agree again that thinking "hips back" first can be helpful in finding that hips back hinge position.

How square should we be... as square as possible, but some variation is OK... actually I don't think there is a standard there. (Reviewed SFG standards list... "the back is neutral", but seems to refer to flexion/extension. Nothing about rotation.) I would say it is a matter of both efficiency and safety for a good hardstyle swing. But if the swing is more gentle, more like a GS swing, then rotation is not a problem.
 
Hi all. Ok, I'm in front of a computer again after 2 days in the mountains skiing (aka utilising my KB earned fitness).

Thank you @Pavel.Kosenkov for asking those pointed questions regarding my video technique and for @Anna C and @Mark Limbaga for the responses. I was a little sore/tired today so I probably should have either taken the day off or done a 2H KB swings day, but I wanted to see if I could improve on some of the points.

A few points that were brought up:
  • left side should wandering up a bit.
    • Definitely. I think this is getting better. This was a show stopper for a long time along this 24kg 1H swing journey. Both shoulders had it. I think it is getting better recently though as I am working on my pull ups where previously I was not able to escape the dead hang, now I am. I'll continue to work on keeping these packed. Definitely a weak point.
  • chest out and head up at the bottom of the swing to try to keep shoulders packed.
    • I used to keep my head up a little as I was going into the back swing but the SF instructor I had in Ireland recommended me to try keep my head neutral as later when the weights get heavier it will be less stressful on the neck so I've actually been working on keeping my head down. If you notice the first video on this thread, my head is up. I'll try chest out though.
  • snappier and move quicker
    • I am such a sloth... however, I will endeavour to address this and I think it actually comes down to my hinge. more on this in a bit.
  • the bend in my right arm
    • I took more videos today where I tried to work on this, but they all still have it. I was sure my arm was straight each time and then the video footage would tell a different story. I am not sure what is happening there but I'm going to ignore it mentally for a little bit while I work on this last point first.
  • review the athletic hinge, the SF hinge, deadlift and knees forward
    • Thanks for this. Actually, I think I've been working on my shoulder packing issues so much that my hinge has got a little too much forward knee in it. When I took the session with a SF instructor in Ireland, I remember how sore my hamstrings and glutes were the next day with DOMS. He broke it all down so well step by step. I wish I could go back for another few sessions. During my S&S session tonight, I think I stumbled on that feeling again in the last set where I got that elastic spring load again in the backswing and it really helped launch the bell up easier also. I'll try review this more and when I feel I'm either improved or more confused, I'll post another video.
So again. Thanks all for making me think more and giving me the confidence to improve further.
 
I've done some work. I've reviewed the S&S online course deadlift again and sure enough this helped me with the hinge. I've been trying to bring that back into the swing so I have been working on my 2H swing. I am not completely happy yet but I guess it's good to show where I am and confirm I'm on the right track. I've added 3 different angles in the one shot. These were taken in tonight's practice session. Sets 3, 4 and 5. As you can see I still find it hard to count to 10 also.



Thanks all.
 
@wexford

Good job with straighter arms at the top of the swing! I see progress there.

The video angles are great!

The basic swing looks good, but we can continue to improve.

1) The hinge position looks a bit too "bent over". My suggestion is to look up a bit more, and think "big chest." Jeff Sokol is always a great example.

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2) Also it appears your knees come forward a bit in the upswing (middle and right view, :09), so this breaks one of the "rules" of a hardstyle swing. (worth noting, it is done in a GS swing, so it's not a matter of safety or effective exercise. But if we're aiming for a hardstyle swing and its particular benefits and characteristics, it is something to eliminate).

3) Although your arms are straighter at the top of the swing, they are bent in the hinge position! This is unusual... Interested to hear your thoughts on that.
 
First time reading this. You have made good progress, well done so far, but keep going and improving! These wonderful people helping you do know what they are talking about and so you are in good hands.

I just wonder about your grip… You don`t seem to wrap your thumb around the handle and you don`t use chalk either. Maybe if you would change those things, your grip would allow you to swing harder and heavier… ? Pavel makes a strong point in the revised s&s book, that chalk should be used. My own training improved a lot when I took that advice.
 
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