Adachi
Level 7 Valued Member
after you reach Simple, and you're pursuing Sinister Yes.
Simple & Sinister - General discussion
- Thread starter SUOMI-PUKU
- Start date
james_1127
Level 6 Valued Member
You're supposed to cut the days back once you achieve timeless Simple... Also I would still keep the 2HSW once every 3ish workouts for deload reasons as recommended... I've gotten as high as 44kg running S&S and it's definitely not easy!
I even played around with splitting the TGU & Swing into separate days
I even played around with splitting the TGU & Swing into separate days
Attachments
Anth
Level 4 Valued Member
I thought it was drop down to 3-4 days? Well then I guess I’m good!
Adachi
Level 7 Valued Member
if you go through the way it describes the changes to your training it will describe something like this:
Otherwise, alternate your 1-hand swing and 2-hand swing days.
add in some cardio if you like on your off days.
Pass Go, Collect $200
M | T | W | Th | F |
|---|---|---|---|---|
2 hand swing | - | 1 hand swing | - | Race the clock* |
*replace a race-the-clock session with a Talk Test session any time you're having a hard week. far from every week is die, but do.
Otherwise, alternate your 1-hand swing and 2-hand swing days.
add in some cardio if you like on your off days.
mikko
Level 4 Valued Member
I practiced 3 on 1 off (1H, 1H, 2H) until 4 sets with 24 kg and 6 sets with 32 kg but started feeling muscle soreness. I reduced to 2 on 1 off still doing 2H swings every third time until 10 sets with 32 kg and further reduced to 1 on 1 off when introducing 40 kg bell. I load next step after 24 times of practice regardless how many weeks it takes and it has worked for me at least until now doing 6 sets with 32 kg and 4 sets with 40 kg where I'm currently at.
Nacho
Level 6 Valued Member
I used to have a bit of that issue. Seems it was some kind of weakness in the adductor muscles, because stretching didnt help but doing some isolation exercises on my adductors with a resistance band did fix the issue. I still do a few sets couple of times a week, because I think the adductors tend to get underused.
Pavel.Kosenkov
Level 5 Valued Member
I actually consider this after I get 24kg across. My training session at the moment is 35-37 minutes, plus 10-12 minutes stretching. 40 min daily is not much, but together with obligatory shower in the summer days it becomes quite a time investment if done daily. I don't mind swinging the bell daily, but it feels like I prioritize my S&S practice above anything else.
lais817
Level 7 Valued Member
Nacho
Level 6 Valued Member
I actually felt the same, but weak muscles tend to get shorter as well. Im not an expert but based on my experience, you might benefit from focusing on adductors a bit on the side of S&S. You want to be able to do deep goblet squats and feel good in your adductors. Or try to just warm up and activate your adductors before gs and see if you notice any difference.
lais817
Level 7 Valued Member
That's the thing, I have great depth in my goblet squats, and feel great doing them, but have perpetual DOMS in my upper inner thighs, and it's giving me the sh$ts. What have you found good for your adductors as an "add on"?
lais817
Level 7 Valued Member
I found that focusing on eating more protein in particular, but also more in general definitely helps me recover better and have less twinges and in my training.
For perpetually skinny people trying to get stronger with S&S, (like me) it's a valid point and I feel would make a big difference to a lot of people.
Nacho
Level 6 Valued Member
Cyrus-II
Level 5 Valued Member
TLDR; I go by “feel” now. How I feel starting a session, a week, workload, stress, diet and other physical activities all play into it.
I’ve learned that at most I might have two “heavy” days a week, and usually only three total training sessions in a week (although I’m still trying for every other day). Sometimes it’s zero heavy days. If I have a “busy” week I only use the 16KG and 24KG, and might take longer breaks, even do it GtG fashion. I have found for me just getting in the reps is the important part.
For me that matters more than trying to accelerate “progress”-ion in weight.
Anth
Level 4 Valued Member
Have you acheived timeless simple? This is what I think about: Timeless simple/solid 2 days a week (maybe three, if I feel strong), then maybe 1-2 sessions with the 16 or 24 just to keep my body feeling good or for recovery.
Cyrus-II
Level 5 Valued Member
Yeah, I hit it maybe a couple of months ago. Sort of. Took over an hour, but I hit the numbers. But it was kind of a "so now what?". I still can't do a bottoms up TGU with the 16KG...and I felt like my conditioning was slipping in the heart rate department.
Anyway I tried maintaining at that weight, but started feeling old injuries creeping up on me again, or felt like my CNS was burning out, or was feeling like I was on the edge of getting sick. So I backed off.
I'm still working with the 32KG almost every week. Sometimes solely just the 32KG in a given week. But if I do that I generally find I can't do more than two training days a week...some weeks only once. So this is why I feel like consistently getting the reps in is more important then focusing on the weight. At least for me, at this stage, through summer due to busy-ness.
- I've experimented with trying to decrease reps per sets and do less than 100 swings. Like 5-8 reps of ten sets of 1H swings, or increasing the rest time between sets. I believe this can work without leaving me gassed. But I think it sacrifices some of the conditioning.
- On the inverse, some days I'm going light, but trying to ramp up conditioning with the 16KG and 24KG. Like if I'm "just not feeling it" in the strength department, I might just focus on form with the 24KG or even the 16KG and "put in the time".
- Some weeks I've also experimented on more of a conditioning aspect and, decreasing rest time between sets, or even just do back to back sets of swings, transitioning hands at the top of the tenth rep. I've easily knocked out 10x10 1H swings with the 16KG in about 3-4 min, and with the 24KG in about 10-12 min. Frankly that feels like it leaves me more gassed though, and I don't do it too often.
Likewise for TGU's, if I'm not feeling it for strength that day I'll focus on a lighter weight, but increase time under tension. Like I did doubles with the 24KG earlier this week because something was tight. Add 3-5 second pauses at each stage, and just focus on form. I've actually used the 16KG and done as many as 8 reverse TGU's without setting the bell down. There is something therapeutic about doing TGU's with a lighter weight that's just "easy".
- And I've actually been doing these more "more complex but lighter weight" sessions more often this summer simply because I'm doing so much other activity it doesn't leave me burned out quite as much. Nearly every week I work with the 32KG in both swings and TGU's, and I'm not losing strength, but it's kept me from burning out. But I still dream of being able to do reverse bottoms up TGU's with the 32KG.
It's funny though. I'm beginning to understand the old school mentality of "milking" a given weight for all it's worth. Start with a weight that's "heavy" for you, do what you can with it. As the weight becomes easier the focus with it changes more to a conditioning. Making the movement more complex, increasing reps per set, decreasing rest time between sets. I think there is an important "cardio" conditioning and strengthening of bone structure and connective tissues by following this pattern.
It's alluded to in S&S, but many seem to gloss it because they are chasing weight numbers, and try to rush to the end. I'm finding contentment in just following the program, experimenting here and there, but sticking to getting in at least 2-3 solid sessions per week of S&S and going by how I feel has been key for me.
Anth
Level 4 Valued Member
Thanks for the explanation. This is a great way to think about it. I plan on following a similar protocol now that I'm back to simple. I will aim for 2-3 days a week but I will back off if I'm feeling burned out and work with the 16 or the 24.Yeah, I hit it maybe a couple of months ago. Sort of. Took over an hour, but I hit the numbers. But it was kind of a "so now what?". I still can't do a bottoms up TGU with the 16KG...and I felt like my conditioning was slipping in the heart rate department.
Anyway I tried maintaining at that weight, but started feeling old injuries creeping up on me again, or felt like my CNS was burning out, or was feeling like I was on the edge of getting sick. So I backed off.
I'm still working with the 32KG almost every week. Sometimes solely just the 32KG in a given week. But if I do that I generally find I can't do more than two training days a week...some weeks only once. So this is why I feel like consistently getting the reps in is more important then focusing on the weight. At least for me, at this stage, through summer due to busy-ness.
- I've experimented with trying to decrease reps per sets and do less than 100 swings. Like 5-8 reps of ten sets of 1H swings, or increasing the rest time between sets. I believe this can work without leaving me gassed. But I think it sacrifices some of the conditioning.
- On the inverse, some days I'm going light, but trying to ramp up conditioning with the 16KG and 24KG. Like if I'm "just not feeling it" in the strength department, I might just focus on form with the 24KG or even the 16KG and "put in the time".
- Some weeks I've also experimented on more of a conditioning aspect and, decreasing rest time between sets, or even just do back to back sets of swings, transitioning hands at the top of the tenth rep. I've easily knocked out 10x10 1H swings with the 16KG in about 3-4 min, and with the 24KG in about 10-12 min. Frankly that feels like it leaves me more gassed though, and I don't do it too often.
Likewise for TGU's, if I'm not feeling it for strength that day I'll focus on a lighter weight, but increase time under tension. Like I did doubles with the 24KG earlier this week because something was tight. Add 3-5 second pauses at each stage, and just focus on form. I've actually used the 16KG and done as many as 8 reverse TGU's without setting the bell down. There is something therapeutic about doing TGU's with a lighter weight that's just "easy".
- And I've actually been doing these more "more complex but lighter weight" sessions more often this summer simply because I'm doing so much other activity it doesn't leave me burned out quite as much. Nearly every week I work with the 32KG in both swings and TGU's, and I'm not losing strength, but it's kept me from burning out. But I still dream of being able to do reverse bottoms up TGU's with the 32KG.
It's funny though. I'm beginning to understand the old school mentality of "milking" a given weight for all it's worth. Start with a weight that's "heavy" for you, do what you can with it. As the weight becomes easier the focus with it changes more to a conditioning. Making the movement more complex, increasing reps per set, decreasing rest time between sets. I think there is an important "cardio" conditioning and strengthening of bone structure and connective tissues by following this pattern.
It's alluded to in S&S, but many seem to gloss it because they are chasing weight numbers, and try to rush to the end. I'm finding contentment in just following the program, experimenting here and there, but sticking to getting in at least 2-3 solid sessions per week of S&S and going by how I feel has been key for me.
Cyrus-II
Level 5 Valued Member
Sounds like a good plan. Even if you "break even" one week, I'm sure the following weeks it will grow easier again as long as you stay consistent.
I was fast tracking toward untimed simple last October and then a series of unfortunate disruptions to my routine and setbacks hindered me. In hindsight too, I think I was trying to progress too quickly in jumping weights.
I didn't start from scratch, but picked back up again in February and experimented enough to figure out where I was overdoing it and sort through my SI joint issues. Once I quit chasing the weight numbers everything else has mostly fallen into place.
I'm quite content to just slowly build up to timed Simple even if it takes another two years. I have plenty to work on with the bells I have. This week I've been doing my halos with the 24KG, for instance...but perhaps next week I'll go back to 16KG. But I could see six months from now having an interest in doing 32KG halos.
I also infrequently do goblet squats with the 32KG. Eventually when those become easy maybe I'll change it up and do offset doubles or work on split squats in a couple of years or even cossacks! A 32KG cossack would be nothing to snicker at either.
I figure I'll be pretty well rounded if in a couple years by the time I hit fifty I can do all of the big six movements with nothing but the 32KG. Sort of a "Victor" type mentality (from Easy Strength...I believe he used nothing but his 24KG bell and a couple of clubs for quite a few years). I also keep Pavel's "The Cost of Adaptation" ever in the back of my mind. For me it's about overall general health and fitness, not "the gainz", or how strong can I get, or setting any kind of PR's.
And S&S is not some sort of weird religious order like a Tibetan monastery with ascetic mystical religious rites and the flowing robes. Sometimes I got to mix it up. So I occasionally I might throw in several rounds of Iron Cardio, or Dan John's ABC one day out of the week to break up the monotony.
Or intersperse some GtG body movements like working on my OA pushups, or pullups, just to keep things interesting. One reason I'll also do reverse TGU's. But I'm still keeping S&S as my primary focus, it's been good to me. I learned to stop worrying about the numbers and love the movement, and I think that's the key.
Pavel.Kosenkov
Level 5 Valued Member
I have noticed that doing RLD with a kettlebell instead of the glute-ham bridge allows me to warm up my lower back better, practice my hinge depth, lat control, and allows me to work on my glutes contaction better. I stretch my hip flexors separetely, doing prying cobra.
I am going to drop hip bridge and do RDLs and deadlifts.
What is your experience with the hip bridge in the warmup? Do you guys feel it is worth it?
I am going to drop hip bridge and do RDLs and deadlifts.
What is your experience with the hip bridge in the warmup? Do you guys feel it is worth it?