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Kettlebell Sport specific conditioning

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Simply strong

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If you train a sport that requires conditioning what is the best way to develop that conditioning?

1) Train your sport to develop conditioning and then train only strength in the gym to allow your conditioning systems to recover more optimally for sports training

or 2) to train both strength and conditioning in the gym
a) shorter/longer time peramaters tgan your sport requires. Eg a marathon runner doing S&S or a hokey player (who is only ever on the ice for a few min at a time) doing 20 min sessions on a rowing machine.
b) the same time peramaters that your sport requires. Eg the same hokey player doing swings for 60s sets then resting similar to what a hokey game would allow.

Or 3) ?

I would assume 1. As all exercise has a training effect; training the sport itself is surly the best way to develop the energy systems required for said sport.

What do people think?
 
It's all very sport specific, like it says in the title.

Typically, I'd say both strength and conditioning need to be trained outside of the sport training. Though not necessarily in the gym.

It's also largely a matter of periodization, how to divide the different foci yearly or in olympic cycles and so. In some sports the competitive season can be very hectic and very demanding, so that there's practically no chance to train strength or conditioning at all. At times the sport itself is enough for the conditioning, at times not.

There's just too many variables to answer the question in a simple manner.
 
I would think in terms of adaptations. There is a fascinating chart in the front of the Second Wind manual about the various parameters (%muscle mass, muscle fiber thickness, mitochondria, proteins, CP, glycogen, Myosin ATPase, Glycolytic enzymes, aerobic oxidation enzymes, maximal clycolysis intensity, maximal tissue respiration rate, etc.) vs the exercises that are used to train them (endurance, speed, speed-strength, and strength). Different types of training trigger different adaptations. Think about what you want to improve, then pick a training modality and protocol that targets that adaptation, for your training outside of your sport.
 
All good answers to far and I'll add one more point, a little to the right of @Shawn90's "we shouldn't think that much." We should think some, and the answers to your question depend on what your sport is, and what your strengths and weaknesses at that sport are.

-S-
 
There will probably be some variation by sport, but my experience is that it’s best to keep atrength and conditioning separate. The gym is the most efficient place to develop strength, so keep it focused that way. Conditioning is very sport specific, so get it from those sessions. When I’ve tried specificity away from the sport, it’s generally been a mess.

Unless, you’re an elite pro. I think of Niño Schurter the best XC MTB racer in the world. His gym sessions are very sport and event specific, but that doesn’t really apply to the rest of us.
 
@Simply strong
Yes lots of good answers thus far. As others have pointed out and alluded to... this might vary depending upon the sport in question. Some sports have much higher skill and experience requirements; where getting 'good' is only going to happen by practicing those skills. In those specific activities, valuable training time is going to be better spent in skills practice, and doing that sport. (Even in ones that require a higher level of 'conditioning ')

@vegpedlr also brings up a good point that what elite athletes require and do often times (even though we can learn from it) rarely applies to most of the training population.

I agree with both @Shawn90 and @Steve Freides ... sometimes we do tend to overthink things; but if we don't think at all we run the risk of ineffective training, or worse yet, dangerous training.

“Climb if you will, but remember that courage and strength are nought without prudence, and that a momentary negligence may destroy the happiness of a lifetime. Do nothing in haste; look well to each step; and from the beginning think what may be the end.”
― Edward Whymper,
 
My 2 cents are, that your Conditioning must be aerobic in first place. This can be trained sport specific or with general conditioning exercises. Pro athletes like in combat sports switch after an fight to general conditioning excersises. If the fight comes closer they train more sport specific and with more intensity (switch from aerobic to glycolycic training). For the normal guy I think that you should train your strength in the gym and do some general aerobic training for conditioning.

For aerobic training running, swimming etc. Is best. Combine this with strength and power training and you gain some serious overall fitness.

At the moment I train Q&D and barbell reload 4 days a week. And on the rest days I do my aerobic training.
I walk 30 to 60 mins every day in addition. I feel very good and fit with this approach. Thanks to pavel
 
ChrisWo468 said:
My 2 cents are, that your Co ditioning must be aerobic in first place. This can be trained sport specific or with general conditioning exercises. Pro athletes like in combat sports switch after an fight to general conditioning excersises. If the fight comes closer they train more sport specific and with more intensity (switch from aerobic to glycolycic training). For the normal guy I think that you should train your strength in the gym and do some general aerobic training for conditioning.

For aerobic training running, swimming etc. Is best. Combine this with strength and power training and you gain some serious overall fitness.

At the moment I train Q&D and barbell reload 4 days a week. And on the rest days I do my aerobic training.
I walk 30 to 60 mins every day in addition. I feel very good and fit with this approach. Thanks to pavel
Click to expand...

To me, this sounds like a very reasonable program to emulate. It covers all the bases.
 
Simply strong said:
If you train a sport that requires conditioning what is the best way to develop that conditioning?

1) Train your sport to develop conditioning and then train only strength in the gym to allow your conditioning systems to recover more optimally for sports training

or 2) to train both strength and conditioning in the gym
a) shorter/longer time peramaters tgan your sport requires. Eg a marathon runner doing S&S or a hokey player (who is only ever on the ice for a few min at a time) doing 20 min sessions on a rowing machine.
b) the same time peramaters that your sport requires. Eg the same hokey player doing swings for 60s sets then resting similar to what a hokey game would allow.

Or 3) ?

I would assume 1. As all exercise has a training effect; training the sport itself is surly the best way to develop the energy systems required for said sport.

What do people think?
Click to expand...

I think it is contextual. Runners need to run a lot, wrestlers need to wrestle a lot to get proper endurance. Playing tabletennis, or even chess at the highest level requires endurance that may hardly be achieved through exclusively doing the activity by itself. Magnus Carlsen plays soccer and basketball, as well as doing a lot of yoga, to prepare physically for long days of intense focus on the chessboard.
 
Pantrolyx said:
Playing tabletennis, or even chess at the highest level requires endurance that may hardly be achieved through exclusively doing the activity by itself.
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I think this is going to depend on the person, on how high a level we're talking about, and a lot of other things. Most people should get their sport-specific everything from playing their sport and possibly from doing sport-specific training as recommended by their sport-specific coach.

-S-
 
Steve Freides said:
I think this is going to depend on the person, on how high a level we're talking about, and a lot of other things. Most people should get their sport-specific everything from playing their sport and possibly from doing sport-specific training as recommended by their sport-specific coach.

-S-
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Absolutely. Playing tabletennis at my level would not require any stamina at all, due to a total lack of skill. :)
My level of chess playing would also be limited by a lot of other factors than endurance. But the best players in the world does endurance training for a reason.
 
Removing skill/technique from the equation, for conditioning, I think assessing option 1 in order to develop the requirements for 2a. I think training longer and shorter enables the event length better than doing the specific event length.

Identify the muscle groups, motor patterns, and energy systems to complete the sport, then pick the training elements best at developing those traits. I'm sure in some cases, there is no replacement for the sport but I would bet in many cases there is.

Fore example, I think x-country skiing may be one of the best aerobic development tools and the squat and bench press to be some of the best strength development tools. A hockey player might do high intensity intervals and heavy triples for sprinting to the puck but the marathoner might do long low intensity steady state and 20 rep sets. Both ski, squat, and bench press though to develop the body's ability to produce force for the most appropriate/advantageous outcome.
 
Bro Mo said:
Removing skill/technique from the equation, for conditioning, I think assessing option 1 in order to develop the requirements for 2a. I think training longer and shorter enables the event length better than doing the specific event length.

Identify the muscle groups, motor patterns, and energy systems to complete the sport, then pick the training elements best at developing those traits. I'm sure in some cases, there is no replacement for the sport but I would bet in many cases there is.

Fore example, I think x-country skiing may be one of the best aerobic development tools and the squat and bench press to be some of the best strength development tools. A hockey player might do high intensity intervals and heavy triples for sprinting to the puck but the marathoner might do long low intensity steady state and 20 rep sets. Both ski, squat, and bench press though to develop the body's ability to produce force for the most appropriate/advantageous outcome.
Click to expand...
Just yesterday I saw a new film about Alex Megos, and he was bench pressing of all things...
 
"it´s the reps that count"
- Arnold Schwarzenegger

From a Tim Ferris podcast where Arnold talks about putting in the work and not ponder so much
 
Don't neglect aerobic training. It's the most important energy system in the human body. Listen to Mike Dolce YouTube channel. He is a world class strength and conditioning trainer!!
 
Simply strong said:
If you train a sport that requires conditioning what is the best way to develop that conditioning?
Click to expand...

I don't know if this response arrives at the "best way", but my approach gravitates towards using 'my sport' to DEVELOP my conditioning, and the weight room to build my base. After all, if it's a sport you are ending with, then all else is only the MEANS.

For example, my sport is contact and ball-based (Australian Rules Football) with not much strength-specific conditioning in the training/game-day, hence i need to supplement with something like S&S sprinkled with single-leg work in the weight room. A: So i don't get knocked over; B: So i don't get knocked over o_O

So I guess my answer is you need BOTH, but your actual sport is where it all comes together. That is what I think when i hear 'Develop'. S&S builds a beautiful base for all the specific stuff to cling to and the field is where it fruits:)
 
@Alan71, welcome to the StrongFirst forum.

Alan71 said:
After all, if it's a sport you are ending with, then all else is only the MEANS.
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A good thought.

I do suspect that, for some people, it can be a little more complex, e.g., some people participate in a sport because they enjoy it but aren't really interested in improving at it, or just their friends do it, and the playing of the sport really isn't the end of everything for them, and that's where programming can get complicated, when multiple, potentially conflicting sets of goals are sought.

And I think we need to further say that all this can be highly individual. I recall, when I used to swim regularly, that when I had kettlebell snatches in my program, my swimming went better - felt easier, my shoulders felt like they had a greater range of motion, and my conditioning felt better, too. One could argue, and I'd agree, that if I was a competitive swimmer, my swim workouts would have given me all the conditioning I needed, but I was just someone who enjoyed swimming a mile or two in the pool a few times a week at an easy pace.

-S-
 
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