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Strong Endurance Strong Endurance Express!

Has anyone tried the heavy singles otm programme before? Saw it on strong endurance express… I was happy when I saw 5 reps OTM so 1 rep otm sounds too good to be true . Thinking of going for the double kettlebell clean and jerk - single rep otm for 45 mins. What would a good % of1RM to use for something like this?
 
Has anyone tried the heavy singles otm programme before? Saw it on strong endurance express… I was happy when I saw 5 reps OTM so 1 rep otm sounds too good to be true . Thinking of going for the double kettlebell clean and jerk - single rep otm for 45 mins. What would a good % of1RM to use for something like this?
So I'm of two minds about this.
Power vs Strength

Power
If you're intending to express power in the lift, somewhere between 30 to 50% max weight is where a peak power expression can be found. So, I'd try singles like snatches with that much weight, work my way up from 30 to 50% over several weeks.

Strength
If you're doing slow and controlled reps, maybe start with 50% 1RM and work your way up from there. Over weeks and months. I target something like mapping out a progression from 50-65% 1RM. Maybe 70. Maybe. Maybe not 70 if I was using deadlifts, for example.

Progression
I would use a triple progression.

1. Add singles on the minute till you maximize your chosen session length. Mine would be 30 minutes. Yours might be 40 or 50. Consider not trying to drag yourself thru more than 90 minutes of this if you don't have to.

2. After reaching your benchmark, increase weight by your chosen weight increment. (5 or 10 lbs on the bar, or, 2.5 or 5 percent). and mind the stop signs for your new session length.

3. After reaching the top of your weight ladder per the chosen percentage of 1RM and the desired session length, consider testing for a new T1RM . And start over on the new percentage ladder.
( Return to Step 1 )

All this with just singles.
 
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Has anyone tried the heavy singles otm programme before? Saw it on strong endurance express… I was happy when I saw 5 reps OTM so 1 rep otm sounds too good to be true . Thinking of going for the double kettlebell clean and jerk - single rep otm for 45 mins. What would a good % of1RM to use for something like this?
I mean... that's basically KB SF - singles its every 30s, doubles its every minute.

I don't like %1RM with kettlebells. I would suggest a strong 5RM pair.
 
I like it a lot.

Something that would make the manual more user friendly, though, is a dedicated program/protocol section, divided into which category they each fall under.

Meaning, here’s the Axe protocols, here’s the IC protocols, here’s the Metal Heart protocols, etc. similar to the PlanStrong Manual which has an entire section in the back of just protocols/programs. Currently, the SEE protocols are very frequently mixed in/sprinkled throughout the rest of the manual based on what module they appeared in. That makes it hard to locate them.

Ideally, organizing the protocols based on how best to proceed from one to the next would be great, but I understand that that is probably goal specific. Additionally, referencing where the various Speed Metal programs (or other products like QD or SS or KBSF) fall in the spectrum (or out of it, if they are something else entirely), would also be helpful. I get that you wouldn’t spell out the details of those products because they are purchased separately, but they can at least be placed in the hierarchy/tree and if someone wants details they can go get those as well.

That would make it WAY simpler for those of us that have the various products (or even just this one stellar product), and want to get a big picture of how everything lays out and fits together. Think of it as the box cover for the puzzle so we have a reference and guide for doing the work and putting it all together.

Again, it’s a great product and I highly recommend it. This would just be a really good, supremely helpful, and almost-necessary addition to make it more practical for use after watching all the modules and reading the manual.
In the manual there are program cycling ideas for mma figherts and endurance athletes. That might give you some ideas if you have missed it(I did not watch all videos)

Just want to share how I am going to approach. Currently my main goal is to learn KB skills and stick to a program. So I am not going to change my existing program but I will try to play around a few ideas until I build required strength and skills for KB workouts.

So I have decided to look in to Push up and lunge protocols. I gave a try to push up protocol and get a taste of what it could feel like I initially tought that the program is not different than a classic program and would make me sore a lot like a HIT session it did not surprisingly do that. However my elbows did not like it (normally I don’t have elbow issues) I concluded that my strength is not enough for the protocol. I am at way lower reps than the protocol suggests so I am now going to try the lunges protocol . And in the mean time I am going to use the knowledge I am learning on my current program.
 
Has anyone tried the heavy singles otm programme before? Saw it on strong endurance express… I was happy when I saw 5 reps OTM so 1 rep otm sounds too good to be true . Thinking of going for the double kettlebell clean and jerk - single rep otm for 45 mins. What would a good % of1RM to use for something like this?
I would second @John K.
I have done some singles for 45 minutes with Double LCCJs. Sometimes I did weight ladders. Feels really good!

Kettlebells Strongfirst has you covered.
 
Thanks for the replies @Adachi @Bauer and @John K . I have been following KBSF LCCJ for the last year. The target was to complete double kettlebells with 80% of your bodyweight, which I managed to get to after 8-9 months or so. The issue I had was that with the progression in reps and weights throughout the program, I put on almost 10kg! Hence why I thought maybe if I stick to single reps otm and avoid ANY acidosis rather than trying to increase the reps, I might be able to progress in a way that stops me from just getting bigger. Three reps of LCCJ is actually 6 reps OTM of cleans and jerks in total and takes me about 15-17 seconds
 
Awesome. Could you explain a bit more about how you did the weight ladders and your reasons for choosing to do it this way?
Sure! I got these ideas from @don fannucci

In essence, if you like to keep the reps low, you can play around with stuff like this:
  • Classic singles OTM
  • Altenating sets of 1 and 2 OTM
  • Doing weight ladders:
    • Three weights: one below your current working weight, +your working weight + someting heavier (probably 4 kg jumps per bell, so 8 kg overall), just going from weight to weight from minute to minute.
    • Two weights: Your working weight + something heavier. You could alternate these weights or phase in the heavier weight every third set.
You can also combine some of these approaches. For example, you could start your session by alternating two weights, and then add a lighter weight later on, to make it a bit easier. (Personally, I prefer to keep it simple and keep the pattern.)

The idea is to keep progressing and finding the right combination to keep on piling quality reps while adhering to the stop signs.

Last summer I preferred longer sessions (30-45 minutes) and therefore tweaked my variables so that I only met the stops signs later on. Before christmas I preferred shorter sessions and used higher density to meet the stop signs earlier.
 
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Sure! I got these ideas from @don fannucci

In essence, if you like to keep the reps low, you can play around with stuff like this:
  • Classic singles OTM
  • Altenating sets of 1 and 2 OTM
  • Doing weight ladders:
    • Three weights: one below your current working weight, +your working weight + someting heavier (probably 4 kg jumps per bel, so 8 kg overall), just going from weight to weight from minute to minute.
    • Two weights: Your working weight + something heavier. You could alternate these weights or phase in the heavier weight every third set.
You can also combine some of these approaches. For example, you could start your session by alternating two weights, and then add a lighter weight later on, to make it a bit easier. (Personally, I prefer to keep it simple and keep the pattern.)

The idea is to keep progressing and finding the right combination to keep on piling quality reps while adhering to the stop signs.

Last summer I preferred longer sessions (30-45 minutes) and therefore tweaked my variables so that I only met the stops signs later on. Before christmas I preferred shorter sessions and used higher density to meet the stop signs earlier.
Awesome thanks
 
Thanks for the replies @Adachi @Bauer and @John K . I have been following KBSF LCCJ for the last year. The target was to complete double kettlebells with 80% of your bodyweight, which I managed to get to after 8-9 months or so. The issue I had was that with the progression in reps and weights throughout the program, I put on almost 10kg! Hence why I thought maybe if I stick to single reps otm and avoid ANY acidosis rather than trying to increase the reps, I might be able to progress in a way that stops me from just getting bigger. Three reps of LCCJ is actually 6 reps OTM of cleans and jerks in total and takes me about 15-17 seconds
Whether we're talking muscle or fat or both, getting bigger is more often than a diet issue.

What pair of bells are you going to try your singles only idea with? What percent of your bodyweight is that?
 
Whether we're talking muscle or fat or both, getting bigger is more often than a diet issue.

What pair of bells are you going to try your singles only idea with? What percent of your bodyweight is that?
Hi. Yes makes sense re the diet issue. I would need to recalculate the new 5RM to work out the singles weight you suggested. Double 28kg bells that I was completing 40 mins of 3 reps otm for LCCJ was 80% bodyweight for me. However as my weight has gone up, that would currently be around 30-31kg for each bell.
 
Hi. Yes makes sense re the diet issue. I would need to recalculate the new 5RM to work out the singles weight you suggested. Double 28kg bells that I was completing 40 mins of 3 reps otm for LCCJ was 80% bodyweight for me. However as my weight has gone up, that would currently be around 30-31kg for each bell.
Would you say that a lot of that weight was muscle? Or fat? If the former, your singles plan might be great for you. If the latter, I think the singles plan would make any fat loss a bit more difficult than really needed. No need to be super crazy about this, a simple "sure I built muscle, but I'm also fluffier" or a "man I got jacked!" is sufficient.

Anyways, building up with double 32s is a great goal/workout. 32s and 36s are a "sweet spot" for me and double LCCJ, but I'm also a bit heavier than you and haven't spent the time to get to double 40s (80-85% for me).
 
Would you say that a lot of that weight was muscle? Or fat? If the former, your singles plan might be great for you. If the latter, I think the singles plan would make any fat loss a bit more difficult than really needed. No need to be super crazy about this, a simple "sure I built muscle, but I'm also fluffier" or a "man I got jacked!" is sufficient.

Anyways, building up with double 32s is a great goal/workout. 32s and 36s are a "sweet spot" for me and double LCCJ, but I'm also a bit heavier than you and haven't spent the time to get to double 40s (80-85% for me).
Thanks for the reply makes sense about what you said about fat loss being harder with singles. I have put both muscle and fat on but body composition has remained pretty much the same. I want to hit 32kg double KB 3 reps on the minute for sure eventually.
 
I haven’t checked my heart rate when doing singles on the minute but would be interesting to see which zone I am in as it doesn’t feel taxing on the CV system at all compared to when doing 3 reps otm
 
I really like the transparent slides and the simplicity of presentation (especially given the complexity of the topic).

@Pavel:
* Does the top set of a ladder (Module VII: Non Stop) include slower reps (when training to refusal)? Or should the stop signs be ahered to?
* Leapfrogging 1: If alternating between AXE and 025, should the other type of training be maintained (e.g., with one session per week), or are they similar enough to be alternated purely?
* Leapfrogging 2 (same type of question): If alternating between KBSF Plan A/B and Plan 550, is maintenance volume necessary?
* Plan 550: Is it ok to do some Step Ups on off days, or would they interfere too much with hypertrophy or other adaptations?
 
I really like the transparent slides and the simplicity of presentation (especially given the complexity of the topic).
Thank you, Bauer.
@Pavel:
* Does the top set of a ladder (Module VII: Non Stop) include slower reps (when training to refusal)? Or should the stop signs be ahered to?
The reps may slow down but do not exceed RPE 8.

* Leapfrogging 1: If alternating between AXE and 025, should the other type of training be maintained (e.g., with one session per week), or are they similar enough to be alternated purely?
Please give examples.

* Leapfrogging 2 (same type of question): If alternating between KBSF Plan A/B and Plan 550, is maintenance volume necessary?
Since these plans have the same adaptation targets, no need.

* Plan 550: Is it ok to do some Step Ups on off days, or would they interfere too much with hypertrophy or other adaptations?
What is your goal?
 
Thank you, Pavel!

Please give examples.
Leapfrogging 2:
For example, 6 weeks of AXE, followed by 6 weeks of 025.
Should one just do these purely (if going back and forth), or have some maintenance volume?
To illustrate: Phase 1: AXE + 025 on Saturdays // Phase 2: 025 + 10 minutes of AXE during warmup or on other days (or maybe 1x Q&D per week).

What is your goal?
My goals:
I am a desk worker. My goals are general health, and being strong to support my family.
During the summer I was happy with KBSF with LCCJs + running + some low volume One Arm Pushups. During winter I subbed step ups for running (AGST plan from Kenneth Bolyard).
I like the combo of a KB ballistic as the main dish + lower intensity endurance + a little bit of grinding.

To reframe my question: Can I keep this setup, just plugging in any of the SE plans in the KB ballistic slot -- and would this work with Glycolytic Power Repeats, too? I would probably lower the volume of step ups during that phase.
 
I know this is the most unsatisfactory answer ever, but choosing a program will depend on where you are and what goals you have. I have no intention of doing the bodyweight lunges protocol. I don't need that type of endurance! So what goals are you currently working on, or where would you like to go?

This is also an unsatisfactory answer, and I don't always agree when other coaches say this, but I like the idea of starting the SE journey with S&S. Notice there is a template for an alternate S&S progression. Maybe push for the simple standard, or if you've already gotten it in the past, just rack up some training time with swings and get-ups, then transition. I would go to AXE (the program as written in the book, not the general heading). If you are proficient with H2H swings, go for it, but standard 1H and 2H is fine. These are two excellent GPP protocols.

After that? You could transition to 524. Very similar to AXE but focused on the snatch test. I've run this protocol twice, once doing 524 into 523, and once 524 back to back. I felt like a beast and just crushed the snatch test.

And after that?? Maybe 024 or 025, and then 060. So there is a bit of a progression. S&S builds to heavier AXE swings, then add in snatching with 524, then mostly snatching with 024/5 plus adding reps, then snatching and increasing density with 060. Reassess goals after.

This is just one way, and it comes from having just taken ATC (for a second time) and seeing the progression that Derek and Kenneth laid out. Think of your goals, and then think of progressing (NASA quote in the manual - ideally change one variable at a time and run it until it becomes constant, then change another variable). Hope it helps a little to shed some light.
Are all the numbered programs you just mentioned in SEE?
 
I’ve been without kettlebells now since June. Ballistics and endurance in them are my weak link right now; tough to maintain with no iron.
In three weeks I’ll have my snatch test bell only for a few months, then will be several months with nothing again. It seems a great time to apply what’s likely in SEE. However I suspect a lot of the programs will call for heavier than snatch test bell.

I’m also curious about applicability of the principles to body weight programming, as after these next few months that’s all I’ll have. I found the walking lunge program an interesting read; not sure how well it would help with, for example, snatch test type of endurance.
 
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