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Other/Mixed The Enhanced Games -- No Testing Olympics Competitor Announced

Other strength modalities (e.g., Clubs), mixed strength modalities (e.g., combined kettlebell and barbell), other goals (flexibility)
It’s kind of cool to see humans lift huge weights, but it always takes wind out of my sails to remember they had to use such things in order to do so.

People are free to complete at whatever they agree upon for rules for, and they are still lifting the weight, just in clothing that helps them. There is no way you could, e.g., put a suit on me and make me suddenly able to squat 1,000 lbs.

My take is that it’s more interesting to me to see what people can do through training and diet, etc.

If it's not of interest, ignore it. Not to sound completely self-centered, but what find most interesting is what I do. I don't really follow much in the way of anyone else's achievements except in they're in my age/weight/division in my powerlifting federation.

JMO, YMMV.

-S-
 
People are free to complete at whatever they agree upon for rules for, and they are still lifting the weight, just in clothing that helps them. There is no way you could, e.g., put a suit on me and make me suddenly able to squat 1,000 lbs.



If it's not of interest, ignore it. Not to sound completely self-centered, but what find most interesting is what I do. I don't really follow much in the way of anyone else's achievements except in they're in my age/weight/division in my powerlifting federation.

JMO, YMMV.

-S-
Oh 100%. All I was getting at is that some of those huge numbers probably aren’t achievable without a suit. And yes, I’m clearly just restarting my position over and over, so I’m probably about to dip out of this thread :)
 
posted the source of that idea (I hadn’t thought reasons for staying natural quite like that before), and the specific response I got was “he should stfu because he doesn’t compete.”
There is a lot of nuances in each sport and you can only realize it until you're skin in the game. This guy has quite a bold claim about powerlifting and bodybuilding.
He advocates about natural bb which is fine. I have no problem. Don't talk about other sport that he is not understand.
 
Edit: if someone would like to explain how suits and/or high body fat aren’t central to the huge numbers in equipped powerlifting I am all ears.
Well of course suits are central to huge numbers in equipped powerlifting - that's why it's equipped. High body fat tho... maybe - for bench press, absolutely more mass and bodyweight (lean or not) is an advantage (equipped or not, natty or not). Again, I'm not sure what you're arguing ... No interest in untested and equipped? Fine - scroll on.

Fwiw, steroids and PEDs have always been a thing in my competitive worlds (and areas of interest) from the 80s on (martial arts, swimming, PL, OL - my "level" wasn't ever anything to brag about), but you compete and leave the testing (or not) to the organizations you compete in. Do I care that the guy beating my a** is using? Yeah, a little, but all I can do is worry about the guy in my lane, and advocate for stronger testing if it bothers me enough.
 
Sure training programs have evolved. But they haven’t evolved so much that people can lift twice as much as before. I also would have a hard time believing someone could lift over 1000 pounds natural unless they were an absolute behemoth of a human being. Are there any 1000lb benchers who we can say are totally natural?

It might be cool that someone can lift that, but I’m also sorry….I have a really hard time believing PEDs/equipment didn’t help.
Now you have me thinking of these principals ina different context.

So you have tested and untested feds. You assume untested automatically means PED use by some competitors . Or at least I assume that.

So what about training plans for the TsC. It’s an untested comp, and while I have zero idea of anyone’s drug use nor am making accusations, someone at the top level is most likely using stuff not WADA approved. people still seem to get a lot out of those prep plans. Regardless of their “supplement” stack.
 
Now you have me thinking of these principals ina different context.

So you have tested and untested feds. You assume untested automatically means PED use by some competitors . Or at least I assume that.

So what about training plans for the TsC. It’s an untested comp, and while I have zero idea of anyone’s drug use nor am making accusations, someone at the top level is most likely using stuff not WADA approved. people still seem to get a lot out of those prep plans. Regardless of their “supplement” stack.
Yeah, that's a good point. The question, however, is still: if someone was running some kind of PED regimen, how different would their performance be had they not used them?

Experimentally, you would have to separate the effect of the training plan and the effect of the PED(s). To do that, you would need enough participants who were a good fit for the plan (meaning, they aren't newbies), AND you would need about half of them to agree to be using the same dosage of the same PED(s). Then you could compare results. Since PEDs aren't exactly legal, I don't think we will see something like this soon, although we might in the future.

Separating the effects of training, diet, "genetics" (the dreaded g-word which gets thrown around pretty willy-nilly imo), and PEDs would tell us better about how much PEDs actually help. It seems like most of the evidence out there is kind of anecdotal, if I'm not mistaken. I think it's safe to say, however, that if PEDs didn't do that much, people wouldn't use them. So, under the constraints of the hypothetical study I outlined above, the experimental group (which would be using the PEDs) would certainly have better performance. How much? Well, we'll have to wait for someone to do a study like that.

I know it's anecdotal, but there's also something to be said about how people who are clean are often accused of PED use if they make any kind of dramatic gains. That alone says something about the extent of their effects, doesn't it?
 
So you have tested and untested feds. You assume untested automatically means PED use by some competitors . Or at least I assume that.
I assume PED use by all competitors, or certainly the overwhelming majority, because someone not using faces less competition in a tested meet.

Disclaimer - I've attended a couple of non-tested meets over the years if memory serves. One was a complete surprise, a meet that worked in my schedule and I hadn't realized it was untested because it was my first USPA meet and I simply didn't think I had to look for "tested" in the meet title. The other was a later USPA untested meet because the timing, location, etc., was good for me.

-S-
 
So you have tested and untested feds. You assume untested automatically means PED use by some competitors . Or at least I assume that.

So what about training plans for the TsC. It’s an untested comp, and while I have zero idea of anyone’s drug use nor am making accusations, someone at the top level is most likely using stuff not WADA approved. people still seem to get a lot out of those prep plans. Regardless of their “supplement” stack.
I don't really assume one way or another, tested or untested. Well, I guess I should say I don't assume someone isn't just because they're in a tested contest, and I don't assume someone is just because they're competing in an untested event. I've completed in a lot of both and I'm pretty sure there were both natties and not natties in both.
 
And here comes the threats of bans

I feel that if they really wanted to make sports clean of PEDs, that should be standard procedure. I think in general, the rules regarding PEDs are too mild: if you ask me, the way things are now, the potential benefits of juicing outweigh the drawbacks of being caught, because normally, people just face a 1-2 year lay-off outside of the testing pool. If I were responsible, I would
1. ban athletes for life
2. strip them of ALL titles they ever won (because you never know when they started)
3. make them pay back ALL sponsorship deals they ever got to the people they beat
That would be a start, although it would never fully reimburse the people who lost to them (assuming they were in fact clean, which is another issue). Nobody does any of that, so I would argue there is an implicit agreement to keep things the way they are.

On the other hand, the way I see it, the people who really benefited from the big PED scandals were the sponsors. Let's take Lance Armstrong, for example: the people who really made money of his success and putting his health on the line were arguably Trek (which didn't sell much in Europe before his wins), Oakley, Nike etc. It was easy for them to cut the deals afterwards, but of course nobody ever talked about the extra sales they made through him. It's also kind of ironic that the guy who came in second repeatedy after Armstrong (who was never caught during his career) was in fact Jan Ullrich, who was repeatedly banned for substance abuse.

In that light, I think a "second league" for open PED use may in fact be more fair to everyone involved than the way it is handled now.
 
Of course PL equipment adds (in some cases) HUNDREDS OF POUNDS to a lift. I don't think anyone at all would argue differently.

I don't think the unequipped bench press records have changed that much over the last 30 years. Like much at all. I'm not googling anything as I type right now, but I'm guessing it's still around 700 and change. But,... what are you arguing exactly? I don't think anyone says PEDs and equipment don't help...

Just as a slightly related aside - I happened to be walking behind Scot Mendelson once at a meet. He weighed (iirc) somewhere in the neighborhood of 310lb but he had the upper body of a 500lb muscular man - it was crazy. To call it cartoon-like would sound like an insult, but I mean it in the most awe-struck way possible.
I was thinking "Naaah no way thats right, RAW didn't become cool until the last 15-20 years"

Sure enough, I pull up open powerlifting and the heavyweight record is from 1997 and 700 ish pounds. A couple weight classes have had new records set in the last 25 years... But with a quick glance the biggest increase was 30lbs. Many being a kilo or two.

Side note: This Andrzej Stanaszek character seems like a real strong guy. 6x bodyweight squat? But known as a bench specialist?

I opened up openpowerlifting and put up men by raw bench. In the top ten, the oldest result is from 1997, the rest within 11 years or so. In the next 40 results, I think there were three from last century.

Just looking at the top lift, the SHWs, the improvement from 1997 to 2021 was over 10%. Certainly that is a massive improvement, if we compare it to any other sport, like from track and field.
 
I opened up openpowerlifting and put up men by raw bench. In the top ten, the oldest result is from 1997, the rest within 11 years or so. In the next 40 results, I think there were three from last century.

Just looking at the top lift, the SHWs, the improvement from 1997 to 2021 was over 10%. Certainly that is a massive improvement, if we compare it to any other sport, like from track and field.
The one thing to bear in mind though is the more technical a sport is (both in terms of equipment and the movement), the more developement there can be; plus, the developement is more pronounced the younger a sport is, since it takes time for things to establish themselves.
If we look at the 100 m, the world record dropped from 11,00 in 1867 to 1.0 in 1960 and the current 9.58. On the other hand, spear throw world record went from 62.32m in 1912 to 104.80m in 1984 (then dropped again to 85.74 in 1986 due to rule changes, and now is back up at 98.48).
 
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