Programming Improv Thoughts on how I overtrained my lower back

[Adachi]

I have to really tense my abs hard while pressing overhead. If there is any slack in my abdomen, I can immediately feel it in my lower back.

i get the feeling that my dear abbies are giving up before my back and my back can't save me. hence some direct training that I'm starting to do. not as aggressively as I might hope for - as I am not currently doing Janda situps or Hanging Leg Raises - and I'm not quite to where I can do ab wheel stuff with a whole lot of intensity. I am betting my abs are underdeveloped for what I'm asking them to handle, and my pelvic tilt shows it.

I'm just trying to make up for the shortcoming of my abs by starting the big 3 and adding more sets throughout the day.

 

[Anders]

Just some thoughts I got after I read your post. You are stronger than me and maybe also more experienced so take what I have to say with a grain of salt.

1) I think you are right. I think you overtrained.

2) I have the same view on warm-ups as you. I almost never warm up. When I did heavy deadlifts I did a couple of warm-up sets but that was all. I don't believe that warm-ups in general prevents injury. After I started with kettlebells I very rarely have had an injury.

3) I think you are not paying enough heed to the fact that you are strong. The stronger you are, the more taxing 70 percent of 1RM is. I think you trained too heavy too often and in all your exercises.

4) In terms of programming you have two choices: Making your own program/alternating a program that another person has made OR follow another person's training program.

5) If you want to follow your own program you would do wisely in figuring out all the things you want to achieve with training. A friend of mine is following Jay Vincent´s HIT program. He love to be able to only spend only one hour in the gym pr. week. I am the opposite. I like to train as often as possible. Personally I also like to set new personal records preferably once a week. In order to be able to do this I have to have a wide variety of things to test: Weight, reps, volume, conditioning etc etc. And I almost never train hard.

6) If you like to train as often as possible you could consider training different things. You could choose to do one strength program a couple of times pr. week and one conditioning program a couple of times pr. week. You could also add some light yoga and a bunch of walking. A typical training week for me would be: 1) Some walking with my friends two-three times pr. week. 15 -20 000 steps pr time (this is just for fun and relaxing. 2) Yoga once or twice pr. week (light yoga, more like meditation). 3) My main program where I would really like to improve myself (currently the A+A Clean and jerk program. I really try to make progress with program once or twice a week. 4) (heavy) swings. They are often not that heavy. And they are never hard. I have tried to swing 48 kilo for some reps, flirting with it, just to see how it feels, but I never push myself. If I feel tired I just skip this or do it with 2 hands. I definitely prefer to set new records here also every now and then, but it is not a priority. 5) Running in stairs. I do it like S&S. Ten seconds on. Thirty seconds or something off. Then repeat. 15-16 times. 6) Some slow and steady cardio. This is very slow. And very meditative. 7) Once or twice a month I try a glycolytic training.

7) I think your little program is fine. You have chosen important and solid exercises. If I were you I would have waved the loads more. And I would not have done snatches and deadlifts on the same day. And I would have made some days into technique days were you just worked on deadlift technique and press with very light weights.


Hope this helps.

 

[bluejeff]

i get the feeling that my dear abbies are giving up before my back and my back can't save me. hence some direct training that I'm starting to do. not as aggressively as I might hope for - as I am not currently doing Janda situps or Hanging Leg Raises - and I'm not quite to where I can do ab wheel stuff with a whole lot of intensity. I am betting my abs are underdeveloped for what I'm asking them to handle, and my pelvic tilt shows it.

I'm just trying to make up for the shortcoming of my abs by starting the big 3 and adding more sets throughout the day.

After seeing @Pete L 's post, I wonder if training Z-presses would be helpful for your core in terms of overhead pressing.

 

[Boris Bachmann]

I don't hate ab work, but it just doesn't get in the mix as often as it should. To compensate, I try to make sure I do plenty of push-ups and pull-ups - the incidental ab work usually is enough to keep my abs from totally withering away and it does seem to help stave off back issues as long as I'm not too crazy w. the rest of my training.

When I am responsible, I make sure to include spread eagle sit-ups, ab pulldowns, hanging knee-ups/leg raises and the like.

 

[Don Fairbanks]

i get the feeling that my dear abbies are giving up before my back and my back can't save me. hence some direct training that I'm starting to do. not as aggressively as I might hope for - as I am not currently doing Janda situps or Hanging Leg Raises - and I'm not quite to where I can do ab wheel stuff with a whole lot of intensity. I am betting my abs are underdeveloped for what I'm asking them to handle, and my pelvic tilt shows it.

I'm just trying to make up for the shortcoming of my abs by starting the big 3 and adding more sets throughout the day.

Longer single bell suitcase/rack/OH carries ?

 

[Adachi]

Longer single bell suitcase/rack/OH carries ?

or, any carries.
one of the things I struggle with is how long I can leave my kids to their own devices without issues. I'm usually watching them on my own in the evenings, and I can't take a walk down the street.

I was thinking of just pacing back and forth in the garage or the yard. but my kids can be difficult. maybe some loaded step-ups at the stairway in the house. Suitcase/rack/OH.

 

[Adachi]

Longer single bell suitcase/rack/OH carries ?

Ok. So, apparently I have a problem that I'm getting itchy to train since my current loading is not so deep.

Tonight on my step, I picked up my 16kg bell and alternated suit case and rack position and left and right hand position

Suitcase carry switching hands every 30s.
30s/5min. , 1min. Rest.
6 minutes per series
5 series → 30 min.

I meant to alternate every series but I forgot ...
I was interrupted by the kids a couple times.

1. Suitcase
2. Rack
3. suitcase
4. suitcase (oops)
5. suitcase

My grip is toast.
I'd have to alternate with the rack next time.
I'll have to try this again some time.

Notable sensations:
Left glute started to sense fatigue first. This is something I remember from my early days with the swings that my left glute cramped a couple times but my right one never did.

I could feel my entire erectors in my back.

I could kind of feel my obliques.

My grip is not quite up to par need to alternate with rack while that builds up .

Good sweat and breathing like cardio. Could be a fine cardio substitute.

 

[Don Fairbanks]

Ok. So, apparently I have a problem that I'm getting itchy to train since my current loading is not so deep.

Tonight on my step, I picked up my 16kg bell and alternated suit case and rack position and left and right hand position

Suitcase carry switching hands every 30s.
30s/5min. , 1min. Rest.
6 minutes per series
5 series → 30 min.

I meant to alternate every series but I forgot ...
I was interrupted by the kids a couple times.

1. Suitcase
2. Rack
3. suitcase
4. suitcase (oops)
5. suitcase

My grip is toast.
I'd have to alternate with the rack next time.
I'll have to try this again some time.

Notable sensations:
Left glute started to sense fatigue first. This is something I remember from my early days with the swings that my left glute cramped a couple times but my right one never did.

I could feel my entire erectors in my back.

I could kind of feel my obliques.

My grip is not quite up to par need to alternate with rack while that builds up .

Good sweat and breathing like cardio. Could be a fine cardio substitute.

 

[Don Fairbanks]

 

[Don Fairbanks]

Time stamped, but other good stuff in vid. Lateral step ups, also called step downs or touch downs.

 

[ILweare]

or, any carries.
one of the things I struggle with is how long I can leave my kids to their own devices without issues. I'm usually watching them on my own in the evenings, and I can't take a walk down the street.

I was thinking of just pacing back and forth in the garage or the yard. but my kids can be difficult. maybe some loaded step-ups at the stairway in the house. Suitcase/rack/OH.

March in place.

 

[Mark Limbaga]

Before you proceed..

Which movements have you found can you handle with a moderately challenging load but don't cause any pain??

 

[Adachi]

Before you proceed..

Which movements have you found can you handle with a moderately challenging load but don't cause any pain??

Most of the kettlebell movements I can do without pain.

They only weight training movement I've really done in the past 4 months or so has been my Snatch @ 24kg. I took a cycle of Q&D.

I have been adding the big 3 holds throughout the day at work when I get up from my desk, a few times a day or so.

I've also tried some of the P3 protocol in samples. A couple minutes worth at a time.

I could test others but the only other thing I've tried since was recently off of the S&S product from Pavel M. I got my first 40kg getup, just the other day.

 

[Mark Limbaga]

Most of the kettlebell movements I can do without pain.

They only weight training movement I've really done in the past 4 months or so has been my Snatch @ 24kg. I took a cycle of Q&D.

I have been adding the big 3 holds throughout the day at work when I get up from my desk, a few times a day or so.

I've also tried some of the P3 protocol in samples. A couple minutes worth at a time.

I could test others but the only other thing I've tried since was recently off of the S&S product from Pavel M. I got my first 40kg getup, just the other day.

I'd dial that back and let your body build up the tolerance to the load and volume of the 32 that it doesn't feel like a strong dose

 

[Hung]

i get the feeling that my dear abbies are giving up before my back and my back can't save me. hence some direct training that I'm starting to do. not as aggressively as I might hope for - as I am not currently doing Janda situps or Hanging Leg Raises - and I'm not quite to where I can do ab wheel stuff with a whole lot of intensity. I am betting my abs are underdeveloped for what I'm asking them to handle, and my pelvic tilt shows it.

I'm just trying to make up for the shortcoming of my abs by starting the big 3 and adding more sets throughout the day.

I have a soreness in my entirely posterial chain 2 weeks ago after a few sets of 5 with squat. It seems like I was overarching my lower back. I ask my coach and he said I should use the belt. At first I was doubt - I mean I though my bracing is good. But after 2 weeks of heavier and more volume squatting/deadlifting using belt my back is fresher compared to first 2 weeks. In my case, using belt improves my bracing. Beside of focusing on building abs strength (through multi variations of plank, carry and bird dog/deadbug), maybe you should try wearing a belt while doing heavy grinds? My 2 cent.

 

[Adachi]

wearing a belt while doing heavy grinds

I think I saw something that indicated the erectors actually activate more and stabilizers in the torso activate less while using a belt. Allowing you to train your erectors to get stronger in spite of stabilization acting as a bottleneck.

 

[Adachi]

I'd dial that back and let your body build up the tolerance to the load and volume of the 32 that it doesn't feel like a strong dose

Yeah I mean it was just one rep attempt because I had a new cue that unlocked it for me.

Courtesy of Pavel M.

 

[HarryBergers]

THE OVERTRAINING PROCESS
for about 5 weeks from May to June this year, I attempted to adopt a Two-a-Day schedule that I believed would help me get more with less training time, ala strength shortcuts.

I had planned for this cycle to last for 9 weeks, but I had to pull the plug early.

The plan:
snatch during my lunch hour (40-60 reps) and do some deadlifting and presses at home; 10 reps or less.
I was seeking a max strength increase in parallel with a conditioning effect. (really I should have just been doing Iron Cardio)

THE PROGRAM WAS TOO MUCH5x / weekAM Snatch 2 or 3 series Q&D 24kg PM Deadlift @75% ≤ 10 repsPress 32kg ≤ 5x5 - OR - 40kg 3-5 Singles
There were some things I was mixing together here that maybe I ought not to have.

• PttP style near-daily training, and 5,3,2 sets.
• Daily dose deadlift Flat 75% loading.
• Aggressive pressing loading
• 5 days/week of Q&D loading, (higher than advised, albeit "low volume").

What were you doing before this?
How similar in volume was this to what you were doing before you started doing this?
(I think it was from Ed Coan I heard this attributed: "you don't want to increase volume more than 10% week over week or you'll have a high risk of injury due to too much accumulated fatigue.")

 

[Adachi]

What were you doing before this?
How similar in volume was this to what you were doing before you started doing this?
(I think it was from Ed Coan I heard this attributed: "you don't want to increase volume more than 10% week over week or you'll have a high risk of injury due to too much accumulated fatigue.")

Actually leading up to this I was coming off of a cycle of dealing with clean & jerk and clean & press. I did a few barbell sessions before adding in the snatch. But mostly is was lccj and clean& press.

It was definitely higher volume given the deadlift being included.

 

[watchnerd]

Did you have an acute injury or just persistent fatigue that impacted performance?

FWIW, for me, what you describe is usually a signal I’m overdue for a deload week