Kettlebell Timeless Simple Beyond The Prescribed 3-4 Days A Week?

[Dan Riley]

Been a lurker of this forum since I bought my first 16KG kettlebell along with Pavel's Simple & Sinister back in late February 2020, so this is my first time posting. Happy New Year All.

Just this last month, I finally achieved Timeless Simple, which for me--someone who was very much out of shape coming into 2020--is a crazy reality to consider. I soon felt a need to revisit this part of Simple & Sinister and luckily did so in time. Since Summer 2020, I was stuck in a groove of practicing six days a week for an extended period of time with weights I'd grown comfortable with: 1H & 2H Swings with a 32KG & TGU's with a 24KG. At that level, I wasn't burnt out or fatigued because the TGU's weren't at the "Simple" goal weight yet. Now at Timeless Simple, I had done six days in a row and noticed great soreness and exaggerated DOMs (as if it were my first week swinging) at the end of the week--and basically was obsolete on my rest day. Luckily, it was soreness, not pain or injury.

Pavel prescribes scaling back practice to three or four days a week after attaining Timeless Simple, but I'm just wondering if in time, should someone own the 32KG well enough, is it sustainable and/or practical to do Timeless Simple daily or how I was doing lighter weights at 5-6x a week? I'm hooked on the deceptive simplicity of the program and my goal is long term practice.

 

[barrak]

Been a lurker of this forum since I bought my first 16KG kettlebell along with Pavel's Simple & Sinister back in late February 2020, so this is my first time posting. Happy New Year All.

Just this last month, I finally achieved Timeless Simple, which for me--someone who was very much out of shape coming into 2020--is a crazy reality to consider. I soon felt a need to revisit this part of Simple & Sinister and luckily did so in time. Since Summer 2020, I was stuck in a groove of practicing six days a week for an extended period of time with weights I'd grown comfortable with: 1H & 2H Swings with a 32KG & TGU's with a 24KG. At that level, I wasn't burnt out or fatigued because the TGU's weren't at the "Simple" goal weight yet. Now at Timeless Simple, I had done six days in a row and noticed great soreness and exaggerated DOMs (as if it were my first week swinging) at the end of the week--and basically was obsolete on my rest day. Luckily, it was soreness, not pain or injury.

Pavel prescribes scaling back practice to three or four days a week after attaining Timeless Simple, but I'm just wondering if in time, should someone own the 32KG well enough, is it sustainable and/or practical to do Timeless Simple daily or how I was doing lighter weights at 5-6x a week? I'm hooked on the deceptive simplicity of the program and my goal is long term practice.

Well done!

I was on the same timeline as yours. Like you, once I reached Timeless Simple, 5-6 sessions a week were no longer sustainable.

You can regress for a while as you suggested and maintain 5-6x a week schedule. Another option is to practice on "off" days learning new lifts (snatch, bent press, barbells, ...etc) or work on plugging the gaps in your mobility. I did the latter myself.

 

[Papa Georgio]

Been a lurker of this forum since I bought my first 16KG kettlebell along with Pavel's Simple & Sinister back in late February 2020, so this is my first time posting. Happy New Year All.

Just this last month, I finally achieved Timeless Simple, which for me--someone who was very much out of shape coming into 2020--is a crazy reality to consider. I soon felt a need to revisit this part of Simple & Sinister and luckily did so in time. Since Summer 2020, I was stuck in a groove of practicing six days a week for an extended period of time with weights I'd grown comfortable with: 1H & 2H Swings with a 32KG & TGU's with a 24KG. At that level, I wasn't burnt out or fatigued because the TGU's weren't at the "Simple" goal weight yet. Now at Timeless Simple, I had done six days in a row and noticed great soreness and exaggerated DOMs (as if it were my first week swinging) at the end of the week--and basically was obsolete on my rest day. Luckily, it was soreness, not pain or injury.

Pavel prescribes scaling back practice to three or four days a week after attaining Timeless Simple, but I'm just wondering if in time, should someone own the 32KG well enough, is it sustainable and/or practical to do Timeless Simple daily or how I was doing lighter weights at 5-6x a week? I'm hooked on the deceptive simplicity of the program and my goal is long term practice.

I don’t know a lot of details such as your training history, how long it took you to get to 32kg, how long your rest periods are, etc. Everyone is different and I suspect Pavel’s book recommendations are pretty conservative where most everyone should be able to comply if in good health and directions were followed. I know it’s possible to keep frequency up 5-6 times past simple, but if you follow the book then there’s no questioning yourself.
The book reads that you back off frequency when you start adding in your. Friday test days. Have you added those in yet? If not you may want to consider a deload. Drop back in weights in a few sets and work your way back up. Good luck!

 

[Nacho]

I really didn’t want to cut down the frequency either, because S&S had become automatic daily habit. But when I reached timeless simple last spring, I just had to... I couldn’t use 32 every day. I dropped down to 3-4 times a week and added 40mim-1h+ walk on days I didn’t do S&S too keep up with ”daily training”. It was actually a very nice change and I recommend trying it. During summer I played a lot of golf and did 3 S&S sessions a week. After golf season, I missed daily S&S, so I started to do 6 times a week and just go lighter if I need to. Turned out I could now use 32kg for five times a week with one lighter session (24kg) and one rest day. So I sure had made progress with just 3 sessions a week. Did that for maybe six weeks and decided to move to 36kg with 4 times a week frequency and added the walks back. You have a long term goal, and I think after the foundaution is layed with daily sessions and reaching timeless simple, 2-4 times a week keeps it interesting to keep going for a long time.

 

[ShawnM]

I really didn’t want to cut down the frequency either, because S&S had become automatic daily habit. But when I reached timeless simple last spring, I just had to... I couldn’t use 32 every day. I dropped down to 3-4 times a week and added 40mim-1h+ walk on days I didn’t do S&S too keep up with ”daily training”. It was actually a very nice change and I recommend trying it. During summer I played a lot of golf and did 3 S&S sessions a week. After golf season, I missed daily S&S, so I started to do 6 times a week and just go lighter if I need to. Turned out I could now use 32kg for five times a week with one lighter session (24kg) and one rest day. So I sure had made progress with just 3 sessions a week. Did that for maybe six weeks and decided to move to 36kg with 4 times a week frequency and added the walks back. You have a long term goal, and I think after the foundaution is layed with daily sessions and reaching timeless simple, 2-4 times a week keeps it interesting to keep going for a long time.

I did the same thing last summer as well. I trained pretty much daily with swings but only with my 32 Mon, We’d, Fri. Ties and Thurs I did light swings with my 24 , ten on the minute for 10 minutes to keep up my hinge pattern and do more of a conditioning training day. Works great!

 

[oukeith1]

I’m not sure that there is a magic transition between 8 sets of swings and getups or 10 sets of swings and getups.

I interpreted the need to dial back based on the test days, and potentially working in a heavier weight during the process.

 

[Dan Riley]

I really didn’t want to cut down the frequency either, because S&S had become automatic daily habit. But when I reached timeless simple last spring, I just had to... I couldn’t use 32 every day. I dropped down to 3-4 times a week and added 40mim-1h+ walk on days I didn’t do S&S too keep up with ”daily training”. It was actually a very nice change and I recommend trying it. During summer I played a lot of golf and did 3 S&S sessions a week. After golf season, I missed daily S&S, so I started to do 6 times a week and just go lighter if I need to. Turned out I could now use 32kg for five times a week with one lighter session (24kg) and one rest day. So I sure had made progress with just 3 sessions a week. Did that for maybe six weeks and decided to move to 36kg with 4 times a week frequency and added the walks back. You have a long term goal, and I think after the foundaution is layed with daily sessions and reaching timeless simple, 2-4 times a week keeps it interesting to keep going for a long time.

Glad to see some others felt the same reluctance to cut back because how insanely easy it is to practice S&S (at lower or familiar weights) either daily or close to daily. I had failed to mention in my post that last week I dialed back and tried a four day week: 2 DAYS of 32KG 1H/32KG TGU, 1 DAY of 32KG 2H/32KG TGU, and 1 DAY of TIMED TEST 24 KG 1H/TGU. I was not sore at all last week but in fact underwhelmed.

I'm going to see how five days this week (all Timeless Simple) feels and take it from there.

 

[barrak]

Glad to see some others felt the same reluctance to cut back because how insanely easy it is to practice S&S (at lower or familiar weights) either daily or close to daily. I had failed to mention in my post that last week I dialed back and tried a four day week: 2 DAYS of 32KG 1H/32KG TGU, 1 DAY of 32KG 2H/32KG TGU, and 1 DAY of TIMED TEST 24 KG 1H/TGU. I was not sore at all last week but in fact underwhelmed.

I'm going to see how five days this week (all Timeless Simple) feels and take it from there.

Once you're well attuned to your body signals you can make your own adjustments as you just illustrated. You might even dedicate a weekly session focusing on one or two weak links: swinging a club/mace for wrist resilience, bottoms-up getups for tension endurance, overhead squat getups for added thoracic mobility, ... etc.

The last one is illustrated here:

 

[Dan Riley]

Once you're well attuned to your body signals you can make your own adjustments as you just illustrated. You might even dedicate a weekly session focusing on one or two weak links: swinging a club/mace for wrist resilience, bottoms-up getups for tension endurance, overhead squat getups for added thoracic mobility, ... etc.

The last one is illustrated here:

Funny enough was watching this video just the other night fishing for some helpful supplemental moves for my training. Thanks for the share and recommendation to look into club/mace work, something I noticed keeps popping up in my peripheral with kettlebell work.

 

[Deleted member 316]

Have you tried the workout snacks idea? Split the session in two. Swings in the morning and tgu at night

 

[North]

i achieved S&S simple a while back and lost it. Re-achieved last spring/summer and have been using 3x a week S&S with 2 days of practicing other moves (ie pistols, clean & push press, snatch, clean & jerk, etc).

I have continued to progress in S&S current working weight is the 36 and had some fun practicing new moves. I have also allowed myself to drop the TGU from every S&S practice allowing some of the S&S sessions to be shorter as fits my lifestyle (usually just add the TGU practice to a “free day”). These free days can be super easy if I’m feeling beat up or I can drop to the 32 on S&S day.

 

[Kozushi]

My solution is/was to do S&S with the 24 on days I felt a bit sore.

 

[Dan S]

Not sure this will help, but I have been at timeless simple for a while and I usually do it 3-4 days a week. I started adding the standard strength aerobics complex in on usually two other days. I just do the clean, press, squat.

This can be done in a timeless fashion as well or you can set a clock. I usually do 20-40 total sets (10-20 reps a side). I like this total body workout and my ability to set the intensity based on how I am feeling.

Another option if you wish to continue with just simple and sinister six days a week then I would say you need to implement some wave loading / The delta 20 principal mentioned by Pavel in Q&D.

Vary the volume as low as 40 and as high as 100.. In 20 rep increments... never do the same from day to day. You could apply it to the Getups as well. As I believe Brett Jones has said in the past in one of his articles or at least told me something along the lines of you can do the same thing every day, as long as you don’t do the same thing every day.

 

[SayeretJoe]

Once you're well attuned to your body signals you can make your own adjustments as you just illustrated. You might even dedicate a weekly session focusing on one or two weak links: swinging a club/mace for wrist resilience, bottoms-up getups for tension endurance, overhead squat getups for added thoracic mobility, ... etc.

The last one is illustrated here:

This is great! I am working on the Timeless simple, just starting out tho. I am including indian club work (very light) for recovery days, and to get the arm, shoulder and overall upper body mobility. I feel this is a good combination, but there is not that much info out there in my opinion. It is great that you are doing this, if you have any tips or maybe practice routines that would be great! Ill keep sharing my results!

 

[barrak]

This is great! I am working on the Timeless simple, just starting out tho. I am including indian club work (very light) for recovery days, and to get the arm, shoulder and overall upper body mobility. I feel this is a good combination, but there is not that much info out there in my opinion. It is great that you are doing this, if you have any tips or maybe practice routines that would be great! Ill keep sharing my results!

I only have a pair of light Indian clubs which I use for shoulder/wrist warmups. On the other hand, I'm currently doing Q&D with 360 mace swings (15 lb) and lunge-jumps. Not the best modality for Q&D, but mace swings fit my current goal of unlocking my stiff thoracic spine and forward shoulders to prepare them for overhead squat progression. I did spend 4 months doing only back pendulums with an 8K mace before starting 360 swings with a 10 lb mace. Elbows can be easily messed up jumping too quickly into heavy or high volume, full rotation club/mace swings.

Apart from unlocking my upper back, heavy swings challenge my wrists and forearms in ways heavy kettlebell swings and snatches do not. My wrist is mainly in neutral position when swinging/snatching a kettlebell. With mace swings the wrist moves around while under tension, holding on to the implement. That also gives my puny forearms a well-rounded workout.

 

[Dan Riley]

My solution is/was to do S&S with the 24 on days I felt a bit sore.

After my second week of trying to find that "sweet" number of days I can do Timeless Simple in the same way I did work with a 24KG bell almost daily, I'm with you here. I did four days Timeless Simple straight this week and was really out of gas (struggling) on my last set of TGU's yesterday. (I should have taken a rest day in between the two day pairs.) Today, just did the practice with a 24KG bell because my body couldn't take a heavier weight. I'm glad I listened to reason, my body, and have now paid heed to Pavel's prescriptions in S&S.

From here on out, I'm going to definitely pare back my Timeless Simple practice to 3-4 Days a week and utilize rest days and dedicate some other time to cleans, presses, and other work.

Also:

To all on this thread, thanks for your input!

 

[Kozushi]

After my second week of trying to find that "sweet" number of days I can do Timeless Simple in the same way I did work with a 24KG bell almost daily, I'm with you here. I did four days Timeless Simple straight this week and was really out of gas (struggling) on my last set of TGU's yesterday. (I should have taken a rest day in between the two day pairs.) Today, just did the practice with a 24KG bell because my body couldn't take a heavier weight. I'm glad I listened to reason, my body, and have now paid heed to Pavel's prescriptions in S&S.

From here on out, I'm going to definitely pare back my Timeless Simple practice to 3-4 Days a week and utilize rest days and dedicate some other time to cleans, presses, and other work.

Also:

To all on this thread, thanks for your input!

Yes, for example, yesterday I did 120 snatches with the 24kg followed by 10 32kg swings and then 10 32kg TGUs. I was really starting to feel the TGUs after the first 4 reps. Today, I'm going to do some number of clean and presses but probably nothing else (we'll see when I actually get into it though! I tend to add the 10 32kg TGUs to no matter what I do - maybe it's the judoka in me that just "feels" how especially valuable the move is, more than it logically would seem to be.)

****
Ended up doing S&S anyways, haha! I started with clean and press and did a few sets for a warmup, but ended up switching into normal S&S.

 

[SayeretJoe]

I only have a pair of light Indian clubs which I use for shoulder/wrist warmups. On the other hand, I'm currently doing Q&D with 360 mace swings (15 lb) and lunge-jumps. Not the best modality for Q&D, but mace swings fit my current goal of unlocking my stiff thoracic spine and forward shoulders to prepare them for overhead squat progression. I did spend 4 months doing only back pendulums with an 8K mace before starting 360 swings with a 10 lb mace. Elbows can be easily messed up jumping too quickly into heavy or high volume, full rotation club/mace swings.

Apart from unlocking my upper back, heavy swings challenge my wrists and forearms in ways heavy kettlebell swings and snatches do not. My wrist is mainly in neutral position when swinging/snatching a kettlebell. With mace swings the wrist moves around while under tension, holding on to the implement. That also gives my puny forearms a well-rounded workout.

This is a great idea, I will be working my way up first with mobility, and as the equipment allows it I might get a hevier pair when I get my routine down since I am currently working on building a routine that works the basic skills of mobility, in the shoulder, wrists, and always the spine in rotations. Thanks for taking the time to reply!

 

[SayeretJoe]

Have you tried the workout snacks idea? Split the session in two. Swings in the morning and tgu at night

This was a question I had, how is the split working for you? Do you do all of the warm up like usual with the goblet squat, halo and hip bridge? I am taking about 1:45 hrs to do the whole practice with swings and getups combined also with the cooldown stretches.

Keep up the good work!

 

[Deleted member 316]

Goblet squat with swings and halos with tgu. I'm not sure if I like it. It really feels like you are doing anything/working out. The sessions are so short. In and done. But, if you have to skip a session you get a second chance to do something. More adherence