Oscar
Level 7 Valued Member
I worked up to 16kg x 80 sets x 8 reps, and then 9 reps, then went up to 24kg and worked up to, IIRC, 64 sets x 7 reps
448 snatches with 24 kg? That´s amazing.
I worked up to 16kg x 80 sets x 8 reps, and then 9 reps, then went up to 24kg and worked up to, IIRC, 64 sets x 7 reps
448 snatches with 24 kg? That´s amazing.
One thing to remember is that the original VWC workloads for 15:15 were 50 sets. Kenneth bumped that up to 80 not too far after it came out ( for reasons I can't remember) but once I did 80 sets I had no desire to do it again. 25 min standing in one spot was quite enough for me
Steve that is amazing, KJ describes the young world class wrestler doing 80 sets with 24k routinely after a wrestling training session, 64 sets is an incredible fitness and strength achievement for anyone and as yet I've heard of no one other than you who came close to that level of fitness, hat's off to you brother! I think I kind of know what it takes.. no, scratch that, I still have no idea what it takes to achieve what you have done448 snatches with 24 kg? That´s amazing.
@Bret S. I hope you don't mind me posting this over here, but I didn't want to potentially hijack Sean M's thread with my question and this seems like a good VWC thread...I would venture to say the recovery cost of WVC is higher for the same volume of work because it's so glycolytic, but I can't cite any proof of that.
Wouldn't the process of expanding your ability to handle lactate and broadly expanding your aerobic base by periodizing VWC (or something like it) enhance your transition to more A+A as Bret is doing?
I noticed that in the little time I've done it, my general work capacity for activities of daily living has expanded greatly. Perhaps it's the S&S work as well or just newbie gains because I haven't done a program like this before...
Perhaps because of my weight and volume 60x7 @12kg so far, I don't ever feel the burn or gulping for air. The biggest thing I notice is power production will start to drop and I have to put extra effort and focus to maintain it.
@Anna C Wouldn't the process of expanding your ability to handle lactate and broadly expanding your aerobic base by periodizing VWC (or something like it) enhance your transition to more A+A as Bret is doing? I may be thinking about this all wrong, but that's kinda been stuck in my head since I started weaving it into my own training. I noticed that in the little time I've done it, my general work capacity for activities of daily living has expanded greatly. Perhaps it's the S&S work as well or just newbie gains because I haven't done a program like this before...
I'm really not sure; I don't use an HR monitor. 220-41=179. If I were to make a stab, I'd guess it's in the 150s. I was talking to a friend whose done the protocol and he suggested I retest and perhaps jump to the 16kg. Or stay at 12kg and jump up to 8 reps per set. He's done both the 15:15 and 36:36 protocols before and said the "magic" happens on the second one.Anna will answer this better than I but wanted to comment;
Yes, it can but the issue is at what cost? It's no different than any other HIIT. Anything works for six weeks. Some folks will be able to get through it longer. But most will see the effects of giving their mitochondria an acid bath eventually.
Hard to say, I'm curious what outcome VWC can achieve. But as far as work capacity, when you got A+A folks doing 50 plus sets of 5 in a little over an hour with the 32 or heavier it's tough to say they don't have work capacity.
Could be a lot of reasons for this. If you tested correctly for what bell and reps to start with, I'm not sure. Maybe you need to be doing 8 reps with a 12K to get the benefit or maybe 7 with the 16K. I believe once you see power production beginning to drop then that's it for the day.
How close to your Max HR are you getting to during a session?
220-age is notoriously inaccurate for calculating HRmaxI'm really not sure; I don't use an HR monitor. 220-41=179. If I were to make a stab, I'd guess it's in the 150s. I was talking to a friend whose done the protocol and he suggested I retest and perhaps jump to the 16kg. Or stay at 12kg and jump up to 8 reps per set. He's done both the 15:15 and 36:36 protocols before and said the "magic" happens on the second one.
I'll be honest, part of what appeals to me about the program is that it's completely different than what I've been doing for the last several months.
Good question Ryan, While doing VWC using 16k x 8 x 80 sets I don't ever recall a 'burn' feeling, I've done it twice with 8 reps and several times with 7 reps. As I understand it KJ chose the snatch for its quick power burst to drive up HR and also because of the distance the bell travels. I believe the TUT while doing relatively light snatches is pretty low, it's quick, intense effort but is truly just a flash, then after lockout I actively pull the bell down (minimal effort here) and the muscles begin engagement to counter the overspeed eccentric near the bottom, then I wait until the bell finishes it's momentum. When I feel the bell resistance fade I again thrust hips forward and give a quick yank around belt height and enjoy the break as it ascends and during lockout. From here the sequence repeats as I work on perfect timing and max explosiveness coming out of the hole.@Bret S. Do you feel "the burn" and out of breath, i.e., subjective experience identified with glycolytic training (80x8 @16kg for you currently)? Perhaps because of my weight and volume 60x7 @12kg so far, I don't ever feel the burn or gulping for air. The biggest thing I notice is power production will start to drop and I have to put extra effort and focus to maintain it.
Yes, it can but the issue is at what cost? It's no different than any other HIIT. Anything works for six weeks. Some folks will be able to get through it longer. But most will see the effects of giving their mitochondria an acid bath eventually.
I'm sure it will help. Building endurance of the muscles, etc. But light snatches only do so much to prepare for heavy snatches. As for lactate and work capacity... well, I'm theorizing here... but I would think that VWC increases your lactate threshold, which is your ability to sustain performance at a higher level of glycolysis and blood lactate levels. That is a different thing than building an aerobic base and building your ability to clear lactate, which A+A will do.
Nice list, and I would tend to believe that those things are true. I would also tend to believe they would be true from CrossFit metcons.
Always things to consider when seeing a list of benefits of a certain type of training -- 1) How long-lasting are the adaptations? (do they revert back realatively quickly to baseline once you stop doing this type of training?) and 2) What is the cost, or downside? (Of course that wouldn't be listed in promotional material.)
Not trying to talk it down... just being devil's advocate.
A similar list relative to A+A would be shorter, I think. In general I would say the A+A adaptations are longer-lasting and have less cost.
Nice list, and I would tend to believe that those things are true. I would also tend to believe they would be true from CrossFit metcons.
Always things to consider when seeing a list of benefits of a certain type of training -- 1) How long-lasting are the adaptations? (do they revert back realatively quickly to baseline once you stop doing this type of training?) and 2) What is the cost, or downside? (Of course that wouldn't be listed in promotional material.)
Not trying to talk it down... just being devil's advocate.
A similar list relative to A+A would be shorter, I think. In general I would say the A+A adaptations are longer-lasting and have less cost.
Comparing VWC to HIIT, I believe from what I stated above there is no 'acid bath' taking place due to the short duration and pulsing nature of the snatch itself coupled with the same pulsing nature of the sets themselves. Traditional HIIT would concentrate lactate to a much higher degree, according to KJ there is an increase in mitochondrial density doing his protocol rather than the reverse.
I'd imagine going from A&A to a program of mostly phosphagen with supplemental HIIT to keep mitochondrial density gains could be another way to go.
Am not sure if anyone has tested this.