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Kettlebell Complexes: Who, When, How?

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But people should be aware complexes aren't the best choice for increasing power (you can't generate max power for 20 reps) or for max strength (a 20 RM weight tests your muscular endurance, not your limit strength).

This is very true, many regular gym goers don't appreciate this enough.
But it is possible to increase the load so rep count drops back to 10 or less, as low as 5, and then sub out for a number of moves that allow some active rest. The working interval needs to be shorter as a result though, no matter how much the work is shifted around.

Even so, you are not going to improve 1RM unless you don't ever train heavy anyway. Conditioning, physical and mental are the major benefits - most people don't go anywhere as deep into their survival reserve as they are capable. Also if done in rapid intervals they will provide much of the HIIT response but with added benefit of some muscular endurance as well as improved recovery. Just gotta keep track of volume...
 
Who should train with complexes? Anyone that has technique dialed in and wants to put on some muscle.

Hypertrophy Training

Resistance Training will increase muscle mass. So, Complexes will increase will increase muscle mass to some degree.

Complexes don't fall into the category of Hypertrophy.

Metabolic Conditioning

Complexes fall into the area of Metabolic Conditioning, Endurance Training. They are basically Circuit Training.

Along with increasing your endurance, they elevate you metabolic rate; increasing that amount of calores/fat burned post workout.

Power and Limit Strength

Complexes are counter productive for Power and Limit Strength Training.

As Watchnerd stated, "...Complexes aren't the best choice for increasing power (you can't generate max power for 20 reps) or for max strength (a 20 RM weight tests your muscular endurance, not your limit strength)."

Kenny Croxdale
 
Complexes are indeed very glycolitic based and therefore typically last 4-12 weeks (12 weeks is the absolute max). Once completed you should switch to something else for the next 4-12 weeks (in most cases rather towards the 12 weeks).

Complexes

Actually, Complexes can be part of one's training program; no need to perform them for 4 - 12 weeks and then dump them.

Complexes are cardio training. Research has demonstrated that come cardio training increases recovery.

Periodization Training

The same training principle applies with Complexes as with all other method, Periodization Training.

Over a few weeks, resistance is progressively increase. That means the Training Cycle start off easy, with the load/intensity increasing each week during the training cycle.

The final week of the cycle is pushed to the limit. After that week, the training load of the Complexes are dropped down to something easy and the process start all over.

Varying Exercises

As with other training, varying/changing the exercises in the following Complexes will elicit a greater training effect.

Training Age

One of the determinate factors how long a Training Cycle is performed is based on your Training Age; how long you have been training.

Research shows it take longer for novice lifters to adapt; they can make progress on the same program for a longer period of time before needing to change their program, appoximately 6 - 12 weeks.

Advance lifter adapt much faster. They need to change their program about every 3- 6 weeks.


Basically you can design complexes for strength, hypertrophy or endurance.

Metabolic/Endurance Training

Complexes fall into the Metabolic/Endurance/Aerobic Training category.

Some strength and hypertrophy are elicited. However, Complexes rate much lower in accomplishing either.

Due to the longer TUT most complexes will naturally fall into the hypertrophy/endurance range.

A Square Is A Rectangle But a Rectangle Isn't A Square

Hypertrophy Training falls into the area of Endurance Training.

However, Complexes don't really fall into the area of Hypertrophy Training.

Metabolic Stress

There are three mechanisms necessary for hyperetrophy. The primary one of the three is Metabolic Stress.

Metabolic Stress is...

The Pump

The Pump occurs when an exercise pumps blood (arterial blood flow from the heart) to the specific muscles targeted in an exercise. Moderate to high repetition are performed with moderate to light loads.

The muscle contraction restricts blood flow (ventricle blood flow back to the heart). The blood becomes trapped in the worked muscles.

Multiple sets with minimal rest periods between set are preformed with the exercise.

Short rest trap blood in the worked muscles, not allowing it to flow back to the heart, "Ballooning" the muscles up, The Pump.

The Pump produces produces an anabolic effect.

Time Under Tension

Time Under Tension does play a role via blood flow restriction in the worked muscles. However, the focus need to be on hammering the muscle involve via the exercise.

Since Complexes are composed of a multiple different exercises that work the whole body;

That means very little Metabolic Stress is placed on the specific muscles targeted for hypertrophy.

So, while Complexes (generally all exercises) promote hypertrophy, they are less effective.

Complexes are def not for beginners.

Beginner Complexes

Complexes is Circuit Training. There are beginner Circuit Training Complexes Classes at colleges and gyms that are taught

The key for beginners for Complexes or any exercise program is to start off easy, then progressively increase the intensity.

High Intensity Interval Training For Cardiac Rehab

This is one method that is being used for cardiac rehab based on research.

A hospital cardiac rehab department is one of my clients. It places cardiac patients on a High Intensity Interval Training Program, not too long after surgery.

However as the director of the department told me, the initial High Intensity Interval Training Program for these cardiac patients amount to walking to the end of the hallway, resting, then repeating a couple of time.

For a cardiac patient right out of surgery. Walking up and down the hallway and back a couple of times is quite demanding. Rehab starts quickly with this group and others, as well.

Knee Replacement patients start walking a few hours after surgery or the day after. Waling for them amount to walking a few feet, resting and repeating a couple of time. For them this amount to High Intensity Interval Training.

The Take Home Message

No matter your physical limitations (Beginner. Cardiac Rehab Patients, Knee Replacement patients) Complexes or High Intensity Interval Training Programs can be preformed, providing the program starts off easy.

Kenny Croxdale
 
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Hypertrophy Training

Resistance Training will increase muscle mass. So, Complexes will increase will increase muscle mass to some degree.

Complexes don't fall into the category of Hypertrophy.

I'm not sure, maybe I'm misunderstanding your post, but I've had a lot of success putting large slabs of muscle on hundreds of students over the years. I mean, Geoff literally named one of his books "Kettlebell Muscle" (which I love)?? Sorry if I'm missing something.
 
I'm not sure, maybe I'm misunderstanding your post, but I've had a lot of success putting large slabs of muscle on hundreds of students over the years. I mean, Geoff literally named one of his books "Kettlebell Muscle" (which I love)?? Sorry if I'm missing something.

Complexes Are A Hypertrophy Training Method

To reiterate, there are three mechanism that provide a synergistic effect for optimal Hypertrophy Training.

Of the three, Metabolic Stress/The Pump is the primary factor that elicits the greatest response. That based on Dr Brad Schoenfeld's research.

Schoenfeld's research supports the anecdotal data on...

The Traditional Bodybuilding/Hypertrophy Protocol


Bodybuilder's have utilized this method for decades because it work. The information that I provide in my previous post provides the Cliff Notes as to why.

Complexes can increase muscle mass but not to the same extent as The Traditional Bodybuilding/Hypertrophy Protocol. So yes, Complexes can increase muscle mass to some degree, as well as other type of strength training.

However, Complexes amounts to using a crescent wrench to drive a nail. The Traditional Bodybuilding/Hypertrophy Protocol amounts to using a hammer.

Your going to be much more efficient when using a hammer to drive a nail than a crescent wrench. The hammer is specific to the task; the right tool for the job.

Endurance Complexes

Complexes are a sibling of Circuit Training.

Complexes is Metabolic Training; it is an effective method of increasing your aerobic capacity and you metabolism. Your metabolism stays jacked up for hour after you training session; burning more calories/body fat.

Limit Strength

Complexes increase strength but not to the same degree as a specific Limit Strength Training Plan.

Power

Complexes are counter productive in the development of Power, as watchnerd stated in his post.

Summary

1) Complexes are a great method for increasing aerobic capacity and your post training metabolic rate.

2) Complexes will increase muscle mass and strength to some degree.

3) The Traditional Bodybuilding/Hypertrophy Protocol it the optimal method for maximizing muscle mass via Metabolic Stress/The Pump.

4) For increasing muscle mass, strength and power use the tool that is specific for the task.

Kenny Croxdale
 
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I'm not sure, maybe I'm misunderstanding your post, but I've had a lot of success putting large slabs of muscle on hundreds of students over the years. I mean, Geoff literally named one of his books "Kettlebell Muscle" (which I love)?? Sorry if I'm missing something.
I think they are effective as a Hypertrophy tool only if all you have are kettlebells. If, however, you have gym with more free weights, like barbells and dumbbells, then it shouldn't be a controversial statement that those are the most effective tools for Hypertrophy
 
I'm not sure, maybe I'm misunderstanding your post, but I've had a lot of success putting large slabs of muscle on hundreds of students over the years. I mean, Geoff literally named one of his books "Kettlebell Muscle" (which I love)?? Sorry if I'm missing something.

I believe KM simply applies Escalating Density Training to kettlebell complexes. You end up with more time under tension in less total time. Some biology is shared with traditional bodybuilding techniques but not to the same degree.
 
I guess there are always exceptions. When I went through Kettlebell Muscle with only 24s, I got stronger. I was able to press a beast for a single rep each side at the start of the program. After not doing single arm presses for the full 12 weeks I did two left and three right. Nothing earth shattering but I was happy. My shoulders were thicker too.

I do recall the dread of the heavy volume fridays though....

For me, the extra strength, added muscle and cardiovascular benefits (lowered resting pulse) made complexes stand out in my mind as a solid training method, especially considering the shortened duration of training sessions. When I was an active LEO they were perfect as I trained in the morning before going on duty. Including warm ups it was like 25 minutes tops three days a week. I have said it before....I felt like I had lifted weights and run sprints with a piano on my back at the same time!

Basically, they can be an excellent training protocol but like anything there are some "gives and takes"..... If you're looking for a great protocol to generally touch on many fitness stones at once, KBM or any other similar program is great! If you re looking to add 50 pounds to your bench or squat, not so much.
 
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I think they are effective as a Hypertrophy tool only if all you have are kettlebells. If, however, you have gym with more free weights, like barbells and dumbbells, then it shouldn't be a controversial statement that those are the most effective tools for Hypertrophy

Right. Novice trainees will respond to almost any new stimulus with adequate recovery and nutrition.

Also, as you point out, the choice is relative.

Would those same students have had more hypertrophy doing barbell backsquats, barbell deadlifts, and barbell presses?

I'm a believer that "weight is weight", or more accurately "tension is tension" (leverages can make a given weight harder or easier), but barbells can be loaded much heavier for full body / lower body exercises (deadlifts, squats), which results in easier overloading.

While a novice trainee can certainly gain strength and hypertrophy using KBs, for many a 32-48 kg KB will become pretty easy for squats and deadlifts pretty quickly.
 
KBs are great because they kill so many birds at one time. They can offer strength, hypertrophy, power, conditioning, movement quality all at once. BUT, they won't specialize in MAX strength (squat 800+), MAX hypertrophy (competition bodybuilder - except Zonin who might actually be Superman), MAX conditioning (competition level endurance race), etc. But most of us are perfectly fine with the GPP that KBs can offer in a very efficient manner.... Im not a specialized competitor, i just want to live better so I'll take the compromise.
 
I do more complex programs than anything else. I love the get in and out in 15-20 minutes and have the benefit of strength training and conditioning. In week 10 of Kettlebell Muscle with 45s. John's right, heavy day is dreadful, especially on week 6.

I've done all the More Kettlebell Muscle programs as well as Pat Flynn's stuff. All are good. I much prefer these to 10 sets of 5 Press and rows, followed by 10 sets of 5 squats and double swings, followed by getups.

It becomes density training when you start cutting down the rest periods. 2 minutes go by SO FAST.

I like chains better than complexes, much nastier over the long run.
 
Lots of talk here about AGT and A+A. But I also see many reports from people about what great results they get with complexes, both BB and KB. Hector, Neupert, Flynn etc. all have well received programs, especially the db KB versions. But they all look pretty glycolytic to me.
No one has suggested that glycolytic training doesn't yield results, only that it is relatively costly to the organism and that there are better ways to use our bodily resources. By doing heavy loads for shorter durations and taking long recoveries, we can accomplish the same or greater amount of work/training at the expense of a longer training session length. For many purposes, this is a worthwhile tradeoff but it needn't be universally applied.

-S-
 
Would anyone agree that complex’s are better for people concerned with injury? You are using lighter weights in complexes and getting a similar workload without needing to get near your max limits is my thinking.
 
Would anyone agree that complex’s are better for people concerned with injury? You are using lighter weights in complexes and getting a similar workload without needing to get near your max limits is my thinking.
Mmm... You are also training fatigued. If I remember correctly, and I think I do, training fatigued is much more prone to faulty mechanics than training with near max weights, this leads to higher chance of injury. This is why technique need to be dialed in well before one start to use complexes.

One more point, what does "similar workload" means?
 
Mmm... You are also training fatigued. If I remember correctly, and I think I do, training fatigued is much more prone to faulty mechanics than training with near max weights, this leads to higher chance of injury. This is why technique need to be dialed in well before one start to use complexes.

One more point, what does "similar workload" means?

Similar workload - I wasn’t sure how to word that, i was trying to say you can fatigue the muscle similarly with more reps of light weights vs fewer with heavy.

As far as injury concerns i can say personally i can get my muscles fatigued about the same with a complex Involving double snatches, presses, and squats with 20 to 24 kg bells vs doing lower rep presses and squats with 32kg bells.

However with the 32kg bells i am more prone to joint pain in the fingers and wrists even though my large muscles can handle the heavier weight.
 
Would anyone agree that complex’s are better for people concerned with injury? You are using lighter weights in complexes and getting a similar workload without needing to get near your max limits is my thinking.


It all depends on how you structure them, and how well a person can perform each station in terms of form.
If you use weights that are heavy enough to stimulate a bit more hypertrophy and strength I'd say no, as you really need to have your form dialed in and be able to "defend" it as you fatigue.

But if you use something along the lines of a 50% load as you suggest, then I'd say yes. It would probably be better in that case to do them by time and not rep count. 90 seconds on, 60 seconds off or some such, using very simple movement patterns. Even if form degrades a bit (and really it shouldn't if they can pace oneself), the person will get great conditioning exposure and injury risk will still be very low. Going by time, if they have to slow way down to fill the period, that's fine. When you combine reps for time is where the effort needs to really be dialed in or form will be prone to degrade.

Is a bit tricky to make definitive statements about complexes as they can be done with heavy loads and low reps, doing a high/low series that will leave you totally pumped, or you can use a bunch of compound movements doing a heavy/light sequence, grind/ballistic, etc.
 
Would anyone agree that complex’s are better for people concerned with injury? You are using lighter weights in complexes and getting a similar workload without needing to get near your max limits is my thinking.
You don't need to train in you max limits either way. Complexes are not different in this regard. Acute overloading and chronic fatigue are much bigger predictors of injury than anything else and you can have either one with complexes if you are not cautious. As with any other training modality.
 
I've had pretty good success with various complex programs. Complexes like any other "exercise" can be programmed to elicit different things. Stringing 3 or four exercises together using singles or doubles with each movement will certainly get you pretty strong. Many olympic lifters use them (think of: one barbell clean, two front squats and one jerk).

I like the "crossover" effect they can give a trainee. Some strength, some cardio, some muscle, some fat loss, etc., all done in a time efficient manner. Will a basic complex program prep me for a marathon run or a power lift meet?....nope.....but they can keep me "fit" from my experience.

One other quick word of caution though regarding Neupert complexes. He often advises as in KBM using a "weight you can comfortably press 10 times. This is not a 10 RM!


 
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