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Barbell 2018 USA Powerlifting Veterans Day Championships

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Carl,

I've recently moved from Gulfport MS to Middletown DE. Maybe Ill catch you at one of these power lifting events (although it probably won't be until 2019, I'm chasing some other goals right now).

Regards,

Eric
 
william bad butt said:
I've recently moved from Gulfport MS to Middletown DE.
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Aw, I missed my chance to get together with you here in MS. Well, if you return, one day soon I'm going to have a home gym built and you're welcome to come train with me!
 
I'm doing Surovetsky for my deadlift, and today was Heavy Day for Week #4 - all I can say is that it was _heavy_ - hadn't lifted in a week, had been out of the country for most of it, jet-lagged today. And yes, I'd like some cheese with my whine, please. :)

I'm looking forward to my first 3-lift meet in a decade or more. My SQ and BP will just be token lifts, but I'll be in the books and I'm hoping to keep doing all three lifts as time goes on.

@Carl, if memory serves, this is a one-day meet, and we're both lifting in the afternoon, so maybe we can have a bite to eat after the weigh-in, although I'm not sure how much there is nearby and I know we won't want to go far. Hmmm.

-S-
 
@Steve Freides ... just checked and men weigh in at 12:30, so I'll probably just "brown bag" it there because I usually dont eat too much on competition day (until after!)

Session 2: Female 84 KG - 84 + KG and All Male Weight Classes
12 PM Weigh-In
2 PM Lifting Begins

I'll probably post my lift plan here in a few days....

Carl in Dover
 
Steve Freides said:
I'm looking forward to my first 3-lift meet in a decade or more. My SQ and BP will just be token lifts, but I'll be in the books and I'm hoping to keep doing all three lifts as time goes on.

-S-
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@Steve Freides ...I know you said token lifts but......just checking, and if I understand it correctly and the M66-3a class is what I think you're in, then NJ State Records are Squat 112.5Kg, Bench is 92.5 Kg, and Deadlift 127.5Kg. and Total 332.5Kg for full 3 lift meet.

Carl in Dover
 
The NJ Deadlift record should be me, 162.5 kg in June. I have the certificate but I do remember John saying they were having trouble with updating the records online. I’ll have a look again, @Carl in Dover.

I’ve been benching and squatting Barbie weights, most 135 lbs for sets of 5, just figuring out the groove again. I benched at my most recent meet and did 60, 70, 80 kg and called it a day. I’ve been squatting high bar in Oly shoes and pausing and exhaling at the bottom, very deep, before repressurizing and coming up, essentially how we do prying goblet squats. I squatted 245 lbs at a meet 10 or 15 years ago.

Hoping to do 3 lifts seriously after I turn 65, just going through the motions now, the beginning of a couple of years of base building for BP and SQ, and during those couple of non-competing years, I’ll put my DL on the back burner. That’s the plan.

-S-
 
Steve Freides said:
The NJ Deadlift record should be me, 162.5 kg in June. I have the certificate but I do remember John saying they were having trouble with updating the records online. I’ll have a look again, @Carl in Dover.

-S-
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Yes, you definitely have NJ State Record in "deadlift single lift"

New Jersey State Raw Records Raw Master 3 -66 Deadlift single lift 162.5 kg 06/24/2018

Different record than 3 lift....

Carl in Dover
 
@Carl in Dover, got it. I keep forgetting that this works differently in the IPF.

I think - not completely sure- that if I break my single lift record during a three-lift meet, that will count for both. The logic, as it was explained to me, was that a single lift DL is easier because you don’t have to do the other lifts first.

-S-
 
Steve Freides said:
@Carl in Dover, got it. I keep forgetting that this works differently in the IPF.

I think - not completely sure- that if I break my single lift record during a three-lift meet, that will count for both. The logic, as it was explained to me, was that a single lift DL is easier because you don’t have to do the other lifts first.

-S-
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That is the logic, to my understanding, and it is, indeed, logical.

By that account, I thought I'd warn you that as you mentioned doing "token lifts" for the other two, that they may not be allowed anymore, at least if you're going for a record. By the same logic as it goes with three lift records vs a single lift records. It makes sense to me and is only fair. That said, it may very well be that what is a token lift for you is relatively heavy enough to pass.
 
@Antti, I think you are misunderstanding what I said. Any DL in a 3 lift meet is going to be more difficult than pulling DL only. What I was discussing was whether my DL from the upcoming 3 lift meet might break my existing single lift DL record.

You raise a valid point about breaking the DL-in-a-3-lift-meet record, however, but this isn’t a point I’ve ever heard raised before. (Nor, I hasten to add, had I considered the 3-lift record before.)

People take lighter weights for a variety of reasons, including injuries that effect only one or two of the three lifts; I don’t think this is something that could be judged. If anyone can cite a federation rule book on this point, I’m interested to read about it.

But, that said, my lifts will be “token” only as my numbers reflect my lack of training, skill, or both, e.g., my recent 60, 70, 80 kg. BP has to be considered in light of a fail at 180 lbs at an APF meet in February and a lifetime best of 190 lbs. (86 kg.) My SQ, OTOH, I do hope will go up again over time. And st this moment, I have no idea what my SQ attempts will be next month.

-S-
 
Steve Freides said:
@Antti, I think you are misunderstanding what I said. Any DL in a 3 lift meet is going to be more difficult than pulling DL only. What I was discussing was whether my DL from the upcoming 3 lift meet might break my existing single lift DL record.

You raise a valid point about breaking the DL-in-a-3-lift-meet record, however, but this isn’t a point I’ve ever heard raised before. (Nor, I hasten to add, had I considered the 3-lift record before.)

People take lighter weights for a variety of reasons, including injuries that effect only one or two of the three lifts; I don’t think this is something that could be judged. If anyone can cite a federation rule book on this point, I’m interested to read about it.

But, that said, my lifts will be “token” only as my numbers reflect my lack of training, skill, or both, e.g., my recent 60, 70, 80 kg. BP has to be considered in light of a fail at 180 lbs at an APF meet in February and a lifetime best of 190 lbs. (86 kg.) My SQ, OTOH, I do hope will go up again over time. And st this moment, I have no idea what my SQ attempts will be next month.

-S-
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IPF talks about "bona fide attempts" that you can search for in the rulebook.

Have a look at this news article: Why Orhan Bilican’s World Record 430kg Squat Didn’t Count - BarBend

There was a certain standard Bilican would have had to bench in order to make his squat the record. His injury didn't matter in the case.
 
@Antti, very interesting!

There are four occurrences of "bona fide" in the USAPL rule book. Three of them refer to international championships and world records.

It's interesting to contemplate the logic behind of these choices, particularly the one in the news article you gave. The article doesn't make it clear, at least to me, whether the single-lift SQ record was in question - it sounds like only the SQ-in-a-3-lift-meet record. What I don't understand is why, since the SQ is the first lift, what comes after it makes any difference to the bona-fide-ness of a SQ record.

OTOH, for the deadlift, which is the final lift, I can see how requiring real attempts on the SQ and BP could make a difference.

Let's have a look in my categories - if you go here: Lifting Database - and choose

Type: New Jersey State Raw Records
Division: Raw Master 3 (that's 60-69 years old)
Weightclass: IPF - Male - 66 kg

You'll see my record for Deadlift Single Lift. I couldn't tell you _why_ it doesn't also show as Raw Master 3a, since there is a Bench Press Single Lift record in there. I just sent an email to our state chair asking this question.

Back to your point about bona fide attempts - in the real world of the USAPL and IPF, even at the level of state records, while no one is telling me to break the rules and they won't mind, they also generally don't drug test us and we are something of a less important class of powerlifting citizen. I don't say this with any bad feeling - I completely get that the competition is for the open class lifters, and also generally for the equipped lifters because those are where people even outside the sport pay attention, and for the simple reason that those numbers are the biggest numbers. I totally get it.

I say all that because I have explained to you here in a forum message that 60/70/80 present bona fide bench press attempts for me, but you should know that no one is going to raise that question at any USAPL meet. At some point it might get asked - perhaps at the level of a national record, perhaps only at a world record level, but I wouldn't be surprised if was considered a non-issue, even at WR level.

Interestingly, the 3-lift total for Master 3a, Raw, is 332.5 kg. If I were to BP 80, SQ 80, and DL 165 as I hope to do, that gets me to 325 kg total. It's possible I could SQ 90 kg and total 330 kg. Maybe I start going a little heavier on my squats between now and the meet.

Thank you for a good and informative conversation thus far - @Carl in Dover, anything to add?

-S-
 
Steve Freides said:
@Antti, very interesting!

There are four occurrences of "bona fide" in the USAPL rule book. Three of them refer to international championships and world records.

It's interesting to contemplate the logic behind of these choices, particularly the one in the news article you gave. The article doesn't make it clear, at least to me, whether the single-lift SQ record was in question - it sounds like only the SQ-in-a-3-lift-meet record. What I don't understand is why, since the SQ is the first lift, what comes after it makes any difference to the bona-fide-ness of a SQ record.

OTOH, for the deadlift, which is the final lift, I can see how requiring real attempts on the SQ and BP could make a difference.

Let's have a look in my categories - if you go here: Lifting Database - and choose

Type: New Jersey State Raw Records
Division: Raw Master 3 (that's 60-69 years old)
Weightclass: IPF - Male - 66 kg

You'll see my record for Deadlift Single Lift. I couldn't tell you _why_ it doesn't also show as Raw Master 3a, since there is a Bench Press Single Lift record in there. I just sent an email to our state chair asking this question.

Back to your point about bona fide attempts - in the real world of the USAPL and IPF, even at the level of state records, while no one is telling me to break the rules and they won't mind, they also generally don't drug test us and we are something of a less important class of powerlifting citizen. I don't say this with any bad feeling - I completely get that the competition is for the open class lifters, and also generally for the equipped lifters because those are where people even outside the sport pay attention, and for the simple reason that those numbers are the biggest numbers. I totally get it.

I say all that because I have explained to you here in a forum message that 60/70/80 present bona fide bench press attempts for me, but you should know that no one is going to raise that question at any USAPL meet. At some point it might get asked - perhaps at the level of a national record, perhaps only at a world record level, but I wouldn't be surprised if was considered a non-issue, even at WR level.

Interestingly, the 3-lift total for Master 3a, Raw, is 332.5 kg. If I were to BP 80, SQ 80, and DL 165 as I hope to do, that gets me to 325 kg total. It's possible I could SQ 90 kg and total 330 kg. Maybe I start going a little heavier on my squats between now and the meet.

Thank you for a good and informative conversation thus far - @Carl in Dover, anything to add?

-S-
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Yes, the rules etc are always the stricter the more esteemed the competition, world championships the strictest and local competitions the loosest.

I agree that it's strange that the squat is affected by the same rules as the bench and the deadlift. Then again, that the squat is affected by the same rules as the bench and the deadlift makes sense. I suppose this is the easiest and clearest route.

IPF rules may often seem irrational and odd, like that one can't wear boxer briefs or that only certain pieces of gear are allowed. But in the past, there has always been a certain someone who has tried to twist the earlier, more lenient rules, to get that single extra pound to beat the opposition. And that way we get to enjoy the extremes.

I don't know about the master's categories and what goes on with them, sorry.

When it comes to bona fide attempts, I'm not sure if anyone knows. In the news article the lifter or his coach had to ask the jury. If there were some clear standards, I would expect them to be in the rulebook. It is likely a grey area, but hopefully it's also something that isn't a frequently needed option as everyone gives their best.

When it comes to single lift records I think, but I'm not sure, but that the IPF doesn't have any single lift records apart from the bench press. And those are often in a competition of their own, the IPF has bench press world championships, but nothing of the sort for the squat or the deadlift. National federations like the USAPL are a different matter altogether. Still, it may be that the rule about bona fide attempts only affects the international records.

@Carl in Dover and @Steve Freides the best of luck to both of you in the meet.
 
Antti said:
I don't know about the master's categories and what goes on with them, sorry.
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May you lift with strength until at least such time as you are motivated to learn something about the master's categories because you'll be lifting in them.

-S-
 
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