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Kettlebell Can an alternating barbell and kettlebell routine grow muscle mass and train general athleticism?

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Capsule

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The idea I have is I'd train 3 days a week Mon, Wed, Fri, and alternate between training with barbells for hypertrophy and training with kettlebells for general athleticism and strength. With barbells, I'd perform deadlifts, bench presses, rows, squats, military press. So far I'm planning to perform swings, cleans, presses, Turkish get-ups, and goblet squats with the kettlebell.

Are there any issues that would prevent this routine from being optimal for my goal?
 
Let's see here..

With the swing you learn timing and rhythm. You learn to produce force, redirect force, absorb force..

If you learn the push press and do the heels rising version, triple extension is one of the athletic movements.

The deadlift teaches you deadstart strength, also an athletic expression..

So yes, absolutely
 
Capsule said:
The idea I have is I'd train 3 days a week Mon, Wed, Fri, and alternate between training with barbells for hypertrophy and training with kettlebells for general athleticism and strength. With barbells, I'd perform deadlifts, bench presses, rows, squats, military press. So far I'm planning to perform swings, cleans, presses, Turkish get-ups, and goblet squats with the kettlebell.

Are there any issues that would prevent this routine from being optimal for my goal?
Click to expand...

It's hard to tell what could be optimal for your goal if you won't tell us what exactly is your goal.

But the program and exercise selection looks good.

Though I would be wary about categorizing modalities and exercises like that. For general athleticism I would at least do the squat with the barbell with strength in mind, if not the other exercises as well.
 
Hello,

@Capsule
Your programme sounds good as it covers most of the patterns (push, pull, hip / hinge, squat). We will assume that heavy DL / Sq work the core enough to not train it especially.

Depending on how you practice the swings (Q&D / S&S format), you can get some conditioning for it. For "general athleticism", I would incorporate LSD and sprints.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
I am curious what your actual training days look like and what you mean with general athleticism.

2 whole body barbell days a week doing all those exercises should meet most if not all your strength and hypertrophy needs. So what are you trying to get out of your KB days? Endurance, mobility? Practice?
 
@Capsule sounds similar to something I read once, I forget where, but basically it was alternating 6 weeks blocks of Power to the People with 6 weeks of Simple and Sinister. It might've been an article here, but this was probably 5-6 years ago.
 
Capsule said:
The idea I have is I'd train 3 days a week Mon, Wed, Fri, and alternate between training with barbells for hypertrophy and training with kettlebells for general athleticism and strength. With barbells, I'd perform deadlifts, bench presses, rows, squats, military press. So far I'm planning to perform swings, cleans, presses, Turkish get-ups, and goblet squats with the kettlebell.

Are there any issues that would prevent this routine from being optimal for my goal?
Click to expand...

I'm struggling with the "kettlebells for general athleticism and strength" part. As stated by Pavel himself on the JRE nothing we have is better than the barbell for strength and hypertrophy. I would second this. Strength is a massive pillar of athleticism and in many sports the foundation. As also mentioned by Pavel (which I will now horribly paraphrase) strength is the foundation, hence why he called his company strong first.

I would also argue after a certain level of strength and technical mastery the barbell is superior for power too. I am looking mainly at weughtlifters here, capable of throwing VERY impressive weights overhead within the blink of an eye. However throwers also do this and athletes from contact sports like rugby too.

I think the main benefit I've personally noticed from kettlebells is the ability to hit A LOT of your base with a single tool. This is also noted by Pavel in the JRE. From training fast twitch fibres, to having a very shallow learning curve, to technique being maliable for individual anthropology, to training mitochondria and conditioning. All within a single tool. Such a powerful asset to anyones health and athletic training.

The utilisation of both barbells and kettlebells during a single training week I think is a great idea. Why stop there? Why not bodyweight and other conditioning tools like running and sprints? If you have the time, recovery capacity and it aligns with your goals then intelligently program all useful tools.
 
Antti said:
It's hard to tell what could be optimal for your goal if you won't tell us what exactly is your goal.

But the program and exercise selection looks good.

Though I would be wary about categorizing modalities and exercises like that. For general athleticism I would at least do the squat with the barbell with strength in mind, if not the other exercises as well.
Click to expand...
You're right, I may have been too vague. My goal is to build larger muscles that are as strong as they appear. So a blend of hypertrophy and strength, athleticism.
 
Capsule said:
The idea I have is I'd train 3 days a week Mon, Wed, Fri, and alternate between training with barbells for hypertrophy and training with kettlebells for general athleticism and strength. With barbells, I'd perform deadlifts, bench presses, rows, squats, military press. So far I'm planning to perform swings, cleans, presses, Turkish get-ups, and goblet squats with the kettlebell.

Are there any issues that would prevent this routine from being optimal for my goal?
Click to expand...
Anything can work if you program it properly.

That's the "key" - Properly.

Structure each session this way:
A. Athleticism - speed, power, mobility - so KB work - ballistics and GU's; 20 to 30 minutes
B. Hypertrophy - barbell work; 20 to 30 minutes

A "Loose" Example of What A Day May Look Like:
A.
- 1H Swings, sets of 5, focusing on power output, resting as needed
- Get Ups, moderate weight, sets of 1-2, resting as needed

B.
- Squat, sets of 5, alternated with -
- Bench Press, sets of 5

Hope that helps get you started.
 
Capsule said:
The idea I have is I'd train 3 days a week Mon, Wed, Fri, and alternate between training with barbells for hypertrophy and training with kettlebells for general athleticism and strength. With barbells, I'd perform deadlifts, bench presses, rows, squats, military press. So far I'm planning to perform swings, cleans, presses, Turkish get-ups, and goblet squats with the kettlebell.

Are there any issues that would prevent this routine from being optimal for my goal?
Click to expand...
You could easily mix the two modes per session, you don't have to separate them.
 
You could add some farmers walks or double kettlebell deadlifts ala ROTK to your s&s days.
Two weeks of pttp and two weeks of s&s is a good idea too. Breaks up the monotony of swings and tgu day in and day out
 
I can only make the gym twice a week at the moment. So I'm currently doing SS on my days off. I believe the different training modalities compliment one another perfectly.
 
Great article Steve.
I got the same advice from a Surgeon that you did. I have a ruptured L5-S1 disc and at its worst I was basically crawling back and forth from the couch to the bed for a couple months.
The surgeon told me that as long as I could feel any bit of improvement, I should avoid surgery. That’s what I did. Kept trying to walk a little further each day until I was able to go back to work. Then I started core training. I was always slim and in good cardio type shape but not overly strong, especially core.
Now almost 11 years later at 52 next month, I train regularly with barbell and KB. Whenever I feel my sciatic nerve starting to act up, I know I have to get some deadlifting in.
The one thing I have really neglected though is my flexibility. I definitely have to commit to it.
 
Too add some resources:
Here you can find threads that have both Kettlebell and Barbell in the title:

Here is a plan combining DLs with Swings and Goblet Squats (Pavel):
www.strongfirst.com

Kettlebells and Deadlifts Go Together Like Vodka and Pickles | StrongFirst

If you've never deadlifted but have been swinging a kettlebell you're ahead in the deadlift game. The hip hinge means kettlebells and deadlifts go together.
www.strongfirst.com

Here is a plan combining BW, KBs, and BB training (Pavel)
www.strongfirst.com

No Distractions: The Occam's Razor Training Plan | StrongFirst

In the 14th century, William of Occam of Occam’s Razor fame gave us the best training advice: “It is vain to do with more what can be done with less.”
www.strongfirst.com

However, since you are looking for hypertrophy, Fabio Zonins plans might be what you are looking for:

This one is inspiring: It combines Dan Johns fundamental movements, with StrongFirst programming for hypertrophy (Barbell + KB assistance). You could use it three times per week. It is way more complicated than Geoff Neuperts advice above, but since you mentioned a variety of exercises it might just be right for you.
www.strongfirst.com

If It Flies Right, It Looks Right: My Journey to a Bodybuilding Competition | StrongFirst

I proved my beliefs on the battlefield. I got on stage with competitive bodybuilders without training "bodybuilding." Here's the training plan I followed.
www.strongfirst.com

And this one from Fabio Zonin might work, too. Just choose the higher rep ranges for a given category (for example a 5RM, 10RM and 15RM weight):
www.strongfirst.com

Simple Strength for Difficult Times Part Two: Get Even Stronger in Quarantine | StrongFirst

Use minimal gear and some creativity to get stronger during quarantine.
www.strongfirst.com
You would do Swings 2x per week.
 
Maybe I've missed this in the replies, but what are you doing to, you know, be 'athletic'?

If you mean 'run fast', then, you know, you should probably include some running. If it means 'jump high' or 'throw far', then you should be including that.

I LOVE barbells and kettlebells, but I'm not relying exclusively on training effect transfer, 'what the hell effect', etc to get me goals that aren't specific to those training modalities.
 
Trever said:
Great article Steve.
I got the same advice from a Surgeon that you did. I have a ruptured L5-S1 disc and at its worst I was basically crawling back and forth from the couch to the bed for a couple months.
The surgeon told me that as long as I could feel any bit of improvement, I should avoid surgery. That’s what I did. Kept trying to walk a little further each day until I was able to go back to work. Then I started core training. I was always slim and in good cardio type shape but not overly strong, especially core.
Now almost 11 years later at 52 next month, I train regularly with barbell and KB. Whenever I feel my sciatic nerve starting to act up, I know I have to get some deadlifting in.
The one thing I have really neglected though is my flexibility. I definitely have to commit to it.
Click to expand...
I got over something like that too without any surgery. It took 5 weeks and I was in sheer pain but I sensed about a very slight improvement daily, and I've been fine now for 9 years.
 
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