Phil S
Level 1 Valued Member
Indeed - and it appears to be catching on among some climbing ilk.
(first post, longtime lurker - since the RKC days)
Other strength modalities (e.g., Clubs), mixed strength modalities (e.g., combined kettlebell and barbell), other goals (flexibility)
(first post, longtime lurker - since the RKC days)
@Ryan Johnson, please post a review of S&S on amazon.com if you haven't already, and congratulations on your progress.
-S-
-S-
Question - what's the difference between using a suspended hangboard like this Lyons Edge and using a hangboard attached to a wall? Most seem to be attached. I imagine a suspended board would be harder, all other things being equal.
This piques my imagination - I've used IronMind's Eagle Loops, but this seems a more interesting thing.
Thanks in advance for your replies.
-S-
offwidth
Level 10 Valued Member
Yes harder for the (obvious) reasons.
You could mount this one to a wall as well.
Although most ‘wall’ mounted ones aren’t on a wall but on something rigid that is out from a wall. Much like a pull-up bar is away from the wall.
And you can hang all plastic ones as well as long as you mount it to a board first.
This set up is about 1 meter away from a wall
And by the way Steve... the wood ones like you linked to are very nice on the fingers.
Eagle loops (and similar) can be very stressful on the finger joints
You could mount this one to a wall as well.
Although most ‘wall’ mounted ones aren’t on a wall but on something rigid that is out from a wall. Much like a pull-up bar is away from the wall.
And you can hang all plastic ones as well as long as you mount it to a board first.
This set up is about 1 meter away from a wall
And by the way Steve... the wood ones like you linked to are very nice on the fingers.
Eagle loops (and similar) can be very stressful on the finger joints
Thanks - that's why I no longer use them regularly.
I'm going to look into this further.
-S-
Phil S
Level 1 Valued Member
@Steve Freides in my experience the suspended ones can be a little tricky for getting the front/back tilt to be consistently angled the same, set to set. Annoying when you're trying to do repeats on short rest.
Still - they're better than not - and i personally have a suspended edge i use formerly for gym trips when i want those deadlift hormonal gains to help out my fingers. Also useful as pictured on the website for use in the wild. Having a consistent edge is nice for warmup in the woods. Or camping trip training. Or visiting your inlaws etc. A KB and a hangboard is obviously pretty great for portability and keeping training momentum.
Fixed board is nice when you're adding load particularly - possibly swinging and intensely loaded delicate white tissues are a fraught combo. And just taking potential variables out of the scenario. If you're climbing then you've already got lots of variety in your hand and finger loading and so just want precise, repeatable circumstances for training and testing. Unloading also a factor - i have a pulley and counterweight system mounted under the fixed board for using grips that i can't or couldn't yet do with full bodyweight. I'm a newish climber middle aged and of undistinguished pedigree - and so half crimps on a 35mm edge with 24 and then 16kg taken off were instrumental in developing finger strength at those angles and catching up my digits to my general pulling strength.
Still - they're better than not - and i personally have a suspended edge i use formerly for gym trips when i want those deadlift hormonal gains to help out my fingers. Also useful as pictured on the website for use in the wild. Having a consistent edge is nice for warmup in the woods. Or camping trip training. Or visiting your inlaws etc. A KB and a hangboard is obviously pretty great for portability and keeping training momentum.
Fixed board is nice when you're adding load particularly - possibly swinging and intensely loaded delicate white tissues are a fraught combo. And just taking potential variables out of the scenario. If you're climbing then you've already got lots of variety in your hand and finger loading and so just want precise, repeatable circumstances for training and testing. Unloading also a factor - i have a pulley and counterweight system mounted under the fixed board for using grips that i can't or couldn't yet do with full bodyweight. I'm a newish climber middle aged and of undistinguished pedigree - and so half crimps on a 35mm edge with 24 and then 16kg taken off were instrumental in developing finger strength at those angles and catching up my digits to my general pulling strength.
offwidth
Level 10 Valued Member
I can’t say enough good things (as people around here will attest to) about a pulley / counterweight set-up...
silveraw
Level 9 Valued Member
This is the video that helped me a bunch.
It is a couple guys from Diesel Crew teaching Jujimufu and Tom.
BennyWalks
Level 3 Valued Member
Deep Step Ups- Slow Eccentric?
I believe that doing step ups with a slow eccentric helps protect the knee, as well as prepare for downhill hiking. It does require a lot of balance - I put the step in front of a wall that I touch with my fingertips on the way down if necessary.
Mental Toughness Is Complicated
I've seen people from very tough backgrounds destroyed by addiction and mental illness. I've seen posh kids who've had it smooth qualify as elite military officers because they wanted it enough- at least, they seemed to have had it smooth, who knows what went on in their personal lives. Some top athletes' achievements seem very impressive, then you realise that they have the benefit of an extensive loving family etc - an emotional starting point many do not. Others thrive on not having such a starting point eg. Gengis Kahn. Speaking from personal experience, someone can be perform 'bravely' in extremely violent situations, and still be intimidated by a simple conversation with a stranger. Etc etc ad infinitum. So it's probably more useful not to look for some holy grail of what mental toughness is all about - rather, how can I work with my situation and personal traits to achieve the outcome that is desirable for me?
Endurance Training Can Be A Better Mental Challenge
I've never understood people who talk about orthodox weight training sessions, HIT cardio etc as if they are going to war. To me, even when my programming was very unwise and I was going to failure multiple times in daily sessions, running intervals which would give me DOMs in my intercostal muscles, etc...it's just not that painful. Sure, you may push yourself until you are screaming etc...but then, it's done with fairly rapidly. And the 'pain' is not pain in the sense that a wound, injury, or even the aftermath of a nasty vindaloo is painful.
Going into 'real' acute pain regularly would require self harm. Discomfort is more of a grey area.
Endurance sports add the time factor to serious DISCOMFORT - this seems a relatively safe way to really push ones mental boundaries. And of course, as some of the tributes in this thread attest, when things go wrong at the high level, then, then you really do have serious pain- life as real as it gets.
MMA Anticipation
Slight tangent...the anticipation of a fight is another potential source of serious discomfort.
Run / Ruck Carryover
"Unloaded running ability is not important. This might seem counter intuitive but when you combine #s 2, 3 and 5 from above, it makes sense. However, most research used relatively heavy loads to test the relationship of running with ruck ability. It is likely that as loads get lighter (i.e., less than 20% of bodyweight), running ability is much more relevant"
I believe that doing step ups with a slow eccentric helps protect the knee, as well as prepare for downhill hiking. It does require a lot of balance - I put the step in front of a wall that I touch with my fingertips on the way down if necessary.
Mental Toughness Is Complicated
I've seen people from very tough backgrounds destroyed by addiction and mental illness. I've seen posh kids who've had it smooth qualify as elite military officers because they wanted it enough- at least, they seemed to have had it smooth, who knows what went on in their personal lives. Some top athletes' achievements seem very impressive, then you realise that they have the benefit of an extensive loving family etc - an emotional starting point many do not. Others thrive on not having such a starting point eg. Gengis Kahn. Speaking from personal experience, someone can be perform 'bravely' in extremely violent situations, and still be intimidated by a simple conversation with a stranger. Etc etc ad infinitum. So it's probably more useful not to look for some holy grail of what mental toughness is all about - rather, how can I work with my situation and personal traits to achieve the outcome that is desirable for me?
Endurance Training Can Be A Better Mental Challenge
I've never understood people who talk about orthodox weight training sessions, HIT cardio etc as if they are going to war. To me, even when my programming was very unwise and I was going to failure multiple times in daily sessions, running intervals which would give me DOMs in my intercostal muscles, etc...it's just not that painful. Sure, you may push yourself until you are screaming etc...but then, it's done with fairly rapidly. And the 'pain' is not pain in the sense that a wound, injury, or even the aftermath of a nasty vindaloo is painful.
Going into 'real' acute pain regularly would require self harm. Discomfort is more of a grey area.
Endurance sports add the time factor to serious DISCOMFORT - this seems a relatively safe way to really push ones mental boundaries. And of course, as some of the tributes in this thread attest, when things go wrong at the high level, then, then you really do have serious pain- life as real as it gets.
MMA Anticipation
Slight tangent...the anticipation of a fight is another potential source of serious discomfort.
Run / Ruck Carryover
Mike Prevost is quite the expert on this topic - Mike Prevost: Ruck Training Programs - PART 1 - On Target Publications
"Unloaded running ability is not important. This might seem counter intuitive but when you combine #s 2, 3 and 5 from above, it makes sense. However, most research used relatively heavy loads to test the relationship of running with ruck ability. It is likely that as loads get lighter (i.e., less than 20% of bodyweight), running ability is much more relevant"
Phil S
Level 1 Valued Member
Absolutely. I started climbing in summer 2017, 1-3x a week. Did my research, spent time on technique and built volume and intensity slowly.
In Sept 2018 i got a Tension Grindstone board and the pulley system - earlier than the conventional advice of waiting X years or until Y grade before hangboard training. 15 months of climbing meant i still had (and still have now?) weak fingers - but with the proper pulley setup i could safely assess just how weak and slowly slowly adjust loading. I've managed to build now to acceptable fingers for my climbing age and it made the year of bouldering (3-5x week) before the pandemic really quite fun to be "even" across my weaknesses instead of highly deficient in what's arguably the most important aspect.
I caught up just being really cautious and regular in my training. Nothing fancy or outlandish or even ambitious. About 90% of what I've done on the hangboard is just Bechtel's 3-6-9s. Ladders should be terribly familiar to this group and probably are even mentioned in this thread somewhere. Virtually all i train is 4F open, 4F half crimp and sometimes 3F drag. Boring, big edges 20, 25, 30 and 35mm. With weight off until i can do bodyweight ladders on the 35mm and then moving down slowly to smaller edges. Not even adding weight yet. But this march continues and has given me access to more climbs and more fun! Couldn't have done it without a simple but crucial weight removal system.
offwidth
Level 10 Valued Member
Often times people who have no conception of what ‘hard’ is; by any real definition of the word...
Tigger
Level 5 Valued Member
What I mean to say is climbing makes doing A+A snatching impossible for me, ie 2-4 sessions of "heavy" for 15-40 sets. My usual weight would be 24kg, but climbing to the point wherein my grip is fatigued 2-4 days a week means a 16kg is feeling grip challenged. ABC is working well. 165lbs bw.
Back on the wall for a couple months with consistency after "specializing" in off-the-couch climbing, I'm leading 11 sport and 11- in the Valley, getting back into 12 sport headspace, and pursuing Freeblast and long term Freerider.
I'm too old to be the hare, and Pavel has me convinced of the tortoise in most aspects of life.
Back on the wall for a couple months with consistency after "specializing" in off-the-couch climbing, I'm leading 11 sport and 11- in the Valley, getting back into 12 sport headspace, and pursuing Freeblast and long term Freerider.
I'm too old to be the hare, and Pavel has me convinced of the tortoise in most aspects of life.
offwidth
Level 10 Valued Member
1. Dress like Bridwell, Long and Westbay
2. Climb like Bridwell, Long, and Westbay,
3. Be Peter Croft
Seriously though...
Although I have only been to the Valley once ... My experience says less ‘dry-land’ training and more climbing
Tigger
Level 5 Valued Member
4. Safety third.
Agreed. Got my hydration and electrolite systems down, eating every hour, big dinners and breakfasts, but even the regulars get cramps on NIAD from what they're telling me.
Paotle
Level 4 Valued Member
This time has nothing exceptional. Many runners (hundred?) run way faster for 1000m uphill. Look at the Vertical Kilometer races (VK).
The best time in 1000m uphill run is 28min53s by Philip Goetsch. It was done in the famous Fully race (Switzerland): 1.9 km long / 1,000 m uphill. It's near the start of Sierre-Zinal, perhaps the most renowned mountain race in the world.
Last edited:
offwidth
Level 10 Valued Member
Yes I am well aware. But 40 years ago this was actually a pretty decent time; and by a person who was not a runner per se.