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Kettlebell Press...Press....Press...where's the pull?

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PLEASE be CAUTIOUS when doing Renegade Rows.
I know many people love them but I have seen a SPEC OPS operator almost loose his trigger finger from a R.ROW's gone wrong. The down bell flipped mid row and the working arm/bell landed on the opp hand/fingers. You only have to see bones protruding from the skin once to pick risk vs reward on these!

Since that day I have never programmed them for any of my students or myself. IMHO - using the active negative of the military press and or pushups (regular or OA/OAOL) and pullups will give you plenty of pulling.

But hey.. ;) just my opinion for what it is worth.
 
Karen Smith said:
PLEASE be CAUTIOUS when doing Renegade Rows.
I know many people love them but I have seen a SPEC OPS operator almost loose his trigger finger from a R.ROW's gone wrong. The down bell flipped mid row and the working arm/bell landed on the opp hand/fingers. You only have to see bones protruding from the skin once to pick risk vs reward on these!

Since that day I have never programmed them for any of my students or myself. IMHO - using the active negative of the military press and or pushups (regular or OA/OAOL) and pullups will give you plenty of pulling.

But hey.. ;) just my opinion for what it is worth.
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I have to agree with Karen here and come out and say that I've never really seen the point in the renegade rows. Regular rows are hard enough, permit one to focus on the main thing, and carry little to no risk.
 
Whew! Thanks Karen Smith- I've been playing around with my balance on these over the last few days, and I'm going to put this movement into the 'too much risk' category. Mind you, I had one 24kg and a 16kg, with the 16kg on a piece of plywood to try and get the same height as the 24kg.....and things 'went south' quickly. I'll stick with the slightly less 'cool' single arm rows etc...
 
I never liked the idea of using my KBs as parallettes, tho have certainly done so in the past.

It only takes one kicking out on you once to leave a lasting impression.
 
In the total tension complex article, you dont even get the convenience of using your working bells as paralletes unless youre already using double 32s, otherwise youre supposed to have a 32 ready for the non working hand. At that point why not just use a dedicated grip that cant tip, or do a different exercise. The main thing with replacing it with a different kind of row is that you miss out on the “total tension” part. If you have a trx or olympic rings, doing one arm rows from the appropriate angle for your ability might be a good sub.
 
Kettlebelephant said:
I'm with @Karen Smith and @Antti on RRs.
To me there's no point in doing them.
They work the core, but there are better movements for your core. For example crawling (especially loaded) feels very similar.
They also work the rowing motion, but other kind of rows do it better and can be loaded heavier.
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One arm PUs have a very similar core challenge. There are so many good row movements I agree with all the above - no thanks on those Renegades. I can't say they aren't effective but they are certainly replaceable.
 
Build a stable wood box about the height of a 32kg bell and use that for the non working hand with renegade rows. You can also buy rehab nesting boxes from physical therapy websites that would work, but they are pricey. No reason not to be a renegade if you’re using boxes!
 
I'll have to rewatch, but I believe Gray Cook recommends the renegade row in Secrets of the Shoulder. He uses a stable little platform like rickyw recommends.
 
Just a reminder... I am not saying don't row, IMO it just isn't safe on a bell and doing alternating. If you have your hand planted on a stable surface then by all means do them but are they officially renegade rows at that point or just rows :)
I still do bent over rows and /or iso hold rows but just don't balance on two kb handles or alternate between sides quickly as I often see and cringe when seening on small bells that can flip over.
 
With one hand planted on a stable surface they are no longer RENEGADE.....they are "ROUGE ROWS". Which sounds almost as cool.......;)
 
I Press and I Press a lot. You might call it my thing. The compliment movement to overhead Pressing is the Pull/chin-up. This is some of the reason you don't here Rows and Presses. Normally you here Pull up, Pull up, Pull up, oh yeah the Press helps the Pull up. We are all about the Basics and I would think the Row gets lost in the Deadlift.

@KIWI5 Your getting caught in the "Letter of the Law " of Easy Strength and need to get to the " Intent of the Law " ( something I am working on ) Our Big 6 exercises are also know a "Big Bang" exercises, they do more than meets the eye. So yes the Snatch is a pull, a hinge, and a pop. DJ states in the book that the Deadlift covers the hinge and the pull so you can combine the two, if you Deadlift to cut back on movements. And no there is no shunned minority, Renegade Rows are great pulling movements, but anyone think of them as Ab exercises????? Big Bang Ex.

North Coast Miller said:
The lack of imbalance is due to the pressing being virtually straight overhead, "balanced" between horizontal push and horizontal pull.
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Very true when you Press correctly You PULL ( Like the Pull-up ) the weight from overhead back into the rack position. There is your Push/Pull balance in the Press.
 
TShuman said:
Very true when you Press correctly You PULL ( Like the Pull-up ) the weight from overhead back into the rack position. There is your Push/Pull balance in the Press.
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You can increase some lat activation by using cues and the scapular muscles will get a good workout anyway, but the overhead press does not incorporate a true pull - it just does not work the lats or rear delts anywhere near as much as a direct pulling either vertically or horizontally. Nor does it hit the pecs like directly pushing opposite a load.

I put the renegade row in the same category more or less as the OAPU - there is nearly as much core/antirotational activation as there is on the presumed target movement - pull/push respectively.
 
Here's some food for thought..or not..or maybe food for a food fight.

What about farmer's walks?? My Wednesday training partner and I finish our session with farmer's walks. This morning we carried two 56Kg bells (about 247lbs) for 200 feet four times, 250 feet once, and then two 48Kg bells (212lbs) for 160 feet twice. That gave us a bit over 1/4 mile. My "deadlift muscles" have been talking to me all day.

Would you consider heavy farmer's walks to be pulls??
 
Regarding the Renegade Row: you should absoluteley do them on a stable surface and with bigger bells (at least 28 I guess). I never had any issues with them but I do can see where they can go wrong. If you decide to do them, really push hard and directly vertical with the non working arm.

Regarding pulls: as @Karen Smith already said, you really have a pull in the eccentric part of the OAPU and the KB press.
Also, think about the Clean and Press: it is a press + a pull in one exercise.
 
WxHerk said:
Here's some food for thought..or not..or maybe food for a food fight.

What about farmer's walks?? My Wednesday training partner and I finish our session with farmer's walks. This morning we carried two 56Kg bells (about 247lbs) for 200 feet four times, 250 feet once, and then two 48Kg bells (212lbs) for 160 feet twice. That gave us a bit over 1/4 mile. My "deadlift muscles" have been talking to me all day.

Would you consider heavy farmer's walks to be pulls??
Click to expand...

I wouldn't call the farmer's walks pulls. On the other hand, I wouldn't likely call the deadlift a pull either. However, I would call both of them awesome. And I think that's the category that counts, and all others really don't.
 
WxHerk said:
Would you consider heavy farmer's walks to be pulls??
Click to expand...

I might look at them as a pulling variant/locomotion crossover, but they wouldn't take the place of dedicated pulling movements in my routine. I lump them with movements like decksquats, loaded duck walking, etc where pretty near the entire body is working.

Farmer's Walks definitely have more of a pull than overhead pressing or even cleans.
 
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Loaded carries are amazing and are kinda a great way to get real strong, but I wouldn't call them a pull. you have to deadlift them into position and they work simular muscles (traps, grip, back, core, legs, your soul) but other then that I veiw them as they are there own thing.
 
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