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Kettlebell ROP support group

@Ryan T S&S replaces the PM as the entry point for RoP. The purpose of the PM is to get you practicing the swing and get-up (and the warm-up/mobility drills); S&S is the same (adding goblet squats) but instead of a few weeks/months of just practice, S&S has a defined goal.

As @Marc said, the ballistics are the cherry on top of the focus of RoP: pressing strength. I typically skipped the swings on the heavy C&P day and did them another day S&S style. The non-RoP days of the week had more variety and volume earlier in the 13-week progression, paring back to almost nothing in the final weeks.
 
Thanks @Sean M and @Marc. I knew that S&S was the PM remastered, but I wasn't sure if there was any benefit to doing the original PM if doing ROP.

Still toying around with what to do after Simple which I still think I can get by the end of the year. I was considering doing the one of the SFG prep programs as there's a possibility I might be able to attend SFG I in April 2019, but I also saw where Steve F mentioned that ROP is still a great program for prep (no double cleans or front squats tho. Could be worked in on variety days, but I haven't read the program so I'm unsure) Also read DJs two articles about progressing through the SF universe and ROP is on there.

So many possibilities...
 
Ryan T said:
Two Quick questions:

Does anyone train barbell DLs with ROP?

If you achieve Simple can you skip the original PM?
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I'm on my first RoP and on my variety days I've been doing deadlifts and DbFS. Currently working well but, I agree with others here, when starting on ladders to 5 I'll probably back off on including these on variety days.
 
@Ryan T I would go for RoP with 20-24kg after Simple. If you have 6-8 weeks between that and SFG, that's plenty of time to work up your double clean and double front squat.

If you have enough bells (or can stack the bells you have) to make the percentages in this program, it worked great for me in half the time of RoP - I went from 5-8 reps with 24kg, 2-3 reps with 28kg, and 0 reps with 32kg, to sets of 3 with 28kg and a solid rep with 32kg.

RoP is a proven program if you have a single bell (manipulating volume as the main variable; intensity/load is held constant), but if you have a variety of bells the intensity can be manipulated and thus the volume lowered. When volume is your main variable, it takes longer per session and program duration compared to a shorter program with varied intensity.
 
Ryan T said:
Thanks @Sean M and @Marc. I knew that S&S was the PM remastered, but I wasn't sure if there was any benefit to doing the original PM if doing ROP.

Still toying around with what to do after Simple which I still think I can get by the end of the year. I was considering doing the one of the SFG prep programs as there's a possibility I might be able to attend SFG I in April 2019, but I also saw where Steve F mentioned that ROP is still a great program for prep (no double cleans or front squats tho. Could be worked in on variety days, but I haven't read the program so I'm unsure) Also read DJs two articles about progressing through the SF universe and ROP is on there.

So many possibilities...
Click to expand...
Hey Ryan, hope you don't mind, I highly recommend Brett Jones SFG1 prep program, it takes 3 mos minimum but if I could do it over I would go for 6 mos. It prepared me well for the test weekend as it takes out the guess work and has you doing high volume stuff which you'll need to thrive, not to mention the strength work.

You'll also need the snatch test prep work, try a snatch test with your test bell, 24k for you I believe to see where you're at. If you've never tried one it can be very humbling. If you're not even close to passing then you have to get working on it right away to be confident of passing after 3 days of getting your butt kicked.

I did S&S prior to testing for a year 4-5 days/wk with up to 36k and ROP for 2 cycles, it was not enough to survive or thrive in the testing (for me). I was very confident going in and thrived in testing due to B Jones prep program.
 
Bret S. said:
Hey Ryan, hope you don't mind, I highly recommend Brett Jones SFG1 prep program, it takes 3 mos minimum but if I could do it over I would go for 6 mos. It prepared me well for the test weekend as it takes out the guess work and has you doing high volume stuff which you'll need to thrive, not to mention the strength work.

You'll also need the snatch test prep work, try a snatch test with your test bell, 24k for you I believe to see where you're at. If you've never tried one it can be very humbling. If you're not even close to passing then you have to get working on it right away to be confident of passing after 3 days of getting your butt kicked.

I did S&S prior to testing for a year 4-5 days/wk with up to 36k and ROP for 2 cycles, it was not enough to survive or thrive in the testing (for me). I was very confident going in and thrived in testing due to B Jones prep program.
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Thanks Bret; your thoughts are always welcome! Brett Jones's program as well as the one that Anna C did are on the list of options to be sure. After looking at the Brett Jones prep I realized that the trainer I was working with last year basically put me on that plan with some minor tweaks. Ended up with golfer's and tennis elbow and was overtrained. I think it was technique issues and the fact that he also had me doing some pretty intense rowinging.

The thing that appeals to me about ROP is the SSST and 1/2 BW press. But all those programs look awesome. So hard to pick. But still need to hit Simple first...
 
Sean M said:
@Ryan T I would go for RoP with 20-24kg after Simple. If you have 6-8 weeks between that and SFG, that's plenty of time to work up your double clean and double front squat.

If you have enough bells (or can stack the bells you have) to make the percentages in this program, it worked great for me in half the time of RoP - I went from 5-8 reps with 24kg, 2-3 reps with 28kg, and 0 reps with 32kg, to sets of 3 with 28kg and a solid rep with 32kg.

RoP is a proven program if you have a single bell (manipulating volume as the main variable; intensity/load is held constant), but if you have a variety of bells the intensity can be manipulated and thus the volume lowered. When volume is your main variable, it takes longer per session and program duration compared to a shorter program with varied intensity.
Click to expand...
Just re-read your post. It's amazing that you increased your press that dramatically in 6 weeks! My 1RM is 24kg, technically 5RM on the Right and 2RM on the Left. I have pairs of 2kg, 4kg, 8kg, 12kg, 16kg, 20kg, 24kg, 28kg and a single 32kg. I could stack the 2kg on any of my weights to get all the inbetween sizes. What else did you do on your pressing days, cleans, squats, TGUs, etc...? Craig says swings on days other than presses. I'm thinking snatches could be swapped in and out too.
 
@Ryan T My context was:
  • Came into it almost done with RoP ladders with 24kg, I believe I was at 2-3 ladders to 5 on the heavy day. I was very close to 32kg, could get 2-3 reps with 28kg.
  • Instead of swings after the heavy day, I did 30-40 minutes of heavier (32kg) one-arm swings in sets of 5 with plenty of rest. I got hooked on how good it felt to do those “power intervals”. Al Ciampa suggested I “flip the script”: do high volume A+A ballistics and low volume grinds.
  • So I started the experimental A+A heavy (28kg, now working in 32kg repeats) snatch protocol I’m now almost done with - so I didn’t do the “conditioning” protocol in that article I linked.
  • The strength program in that article is 5 weeks plus 1 deload week. I was skeptical of the low volume.
  • I don’t know how it works, but it does. The underlying mechanism is still a mystery to me (unlike RoP: the waving volume is the magic). Apparently it’s explained at the Plan Strong seminar
I did it with 32kg as my 1RM for the purpose of the calculations. That meant mostly 24 and 28. The heavier days I did 32kg slow negative.

That took the first 6 weeks of the 13 week A+A protocol (in week 12 now). I haven’t done any other strength work in the last half of the program - I want to see if just heavy snatching maintains pressing strength (part of the experiment).
 
Sean M said:
@Ryan T My context was:
  • Came into it almost done with RoP ladders with 24kg, I believe I was at 2-3 ladders to 5 on the heavy day. I was very close to 32kg, could get 2-3 reps with 28kg.
  • Instead of swings after the heavy day, I did 30-40 minutes of heavier (32kg) one-arm swings in sets of 5 with plenty of rest. I got hooked on how good it felt to do those “power intervals”. Al Ciampa suggested I “flip the script”: do high volume A+A ballistics and low volume grinds.
  • So I started the experimental A+A heavy (28kg, now working in 32kg repeats) snatch protocol I’m now almost done with - so I didn’t do the “conditioning” protocol in that article I linked.
  • The strength program in that article is 5 weeks plus 1 deload week. I was skeptical of the low volume.
  • I don’t know how it works, but it does. The underlying mechanism is still a mystery to me (unlike RoP: the waving volume is the magic). Apparently it’s explained at the Plan Strong seminar
I did it with 32kg as my 1RM for the purpose of the calculations. That meant mostly 24 and 28. The heavier days I did 32kg slow negative.

That took the first 6 weeks of the 13 week A+A protocol (in week 12 now). I haven’t done any other strength work in the last half of the program - I want to see if just heavy snatching maintains pressing strength (part of the experiment).
Click to expand...
Thanks for the breakdown Sean. Seems like there's a multitude of great programming options everywhere you turn around here. Just curious, but for ROP did you end up getting the SSST or have you toyed with the 5 min snatch test? If not I would expect all the A+A snatch work you've done would position you very well to nail it with a little peaking.

EDIT: I just was that you did the 5 min snatch test already. Well done!
 
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Ryan T said:
Thanks for the breakdown Sean. Seems like there's a multitude of great programming options everywhere you turn around here. Just curious, but for ROP did you end up getting the SSST or have you toyed with the 5 min snatch test? If not I would expect all the A+A snatch work you've done would position you very well to nail it with a little peaking.
Click to expand...
Not SSST, but I tested the 5:00 version with 24kg before starting this A+A plan. I got 80, not having done it with that weight before. I did 101 with 20kg at the TSC a year ago (at that time I was between Simple and not having started RoP yet, which I started right after with 16kg). I did not consider the payoff of bagging the SSST to be that much greater (relative to the work/injury risk) than working toward the SFG/TSC snatch test instead.

Another 5:00 test with 24kg will occur soon. Next week is peak volume for the program, so I don't want to mess with my recovery by adding some sprint snatch intervals (1:4-6 work/rest, like a few sessions of 1:00 on/4:00 off x 3-5), so probably looking at a test on 12/8.
 
Ryan T said:
Does anyone train barbell DLs with ROP?

If you achieve Simple can you skip the original PM?
Click to expand...

#1 - Yes, it works well, use the barbell DL instead of swings/snatches. You won't have the conditioning component of the ROP, however.

#2 - Yes, S&S is the updated version of the original PM and as such is a replacement for it unless you have a specific reason to need the original version.

-S-
 
Background: I have been doing ROP with 24 KG by the book, and progressing steadily. I worked up to 3x(1,2,3,4) 2x(1,2,3) using 2-3 minutes between ladders as rest on heavy days. On my last heavy day I missed hitting 4x(1,2,3,4) by one rep with my "strong" side. I have always felt (without basis?) that I needed to keep my rests reasonably short (despite the fact that hypertrophy is not my goal). Progressing / getting stronger is the only goal.

Question: Given the above, is there any downside to significantly upping the rest so that I can continue to progress through the program? I know that, in the book, one is given all day to work through the ladders.

After reviewing the book again, the plan for the upcoming heavy day is a repeat attempt of 4x(1,2,3,4) with more rest in order to make the reps.
 
Yep repeat and rest longer...


You can push the density once you reach 1234x5.. But always, conservatively shave time off and not at the expense of quality reps
 
So, as well all know S&S is an improved version of the program minimum. Is there anything that StrongFirst would improve upon regarding the Rite of Passage? Or is it perfect as is?

Thank you, Adam
 
Maine-ah KB said:
@Adam R Mundorf So ROP is fine as is, lots of people have made gains on it (though I almost always but bow out the last few weeks. its rough) the only "updated" method I can think of is a Plan Strong pressing plan.
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That was similar to my thought as well.

I feel like maybe an added S&S style warm-up and S&S style swings would replace all the dice rolling for conditioning. Also, the pull ups would be non negotiable.

Maybe more guidance for variety days?
 
Adam R Mundorf said:
That was similar to my thought as well.

I feel like maybe an added S&S style warm-up and S&S style swings would replace all the dice rolling for conditioning. Also, the pull ups would be non negotiable.

Maybe more guidance for variety days?
Click to expand...

That and a more structured swing/snatch plan.. Though I think you can implement the dice program of @Arryn Grogan for that segment
 
I'm pretty excited to get my first round of ROP started after Simple, hopefully early next year. I can do 5 strong reps on both sides with a 20kg, but I'll start with 16kg just to be cautious.
 
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