S & S Questions - Links

Discussion in 'Kettlebell' started by Steve Freides, Feb 17, 2017.

  1. Arash Mohammady

    Arash Mohammady Double-Digit Post Count

    Hello comrades, I have a question about how I can get stronger and denser muscle through S&S training and the fighter pull ups program. As of right now I have 10% body fat and my muscles seem to lack in density or hardness department. I’ve only done S&S for almost 2 months and fighter plus for 1 month. So if I continue this training will I achieve stronger denser muscle by continuing this and adding weight to my kettlebells ( currently using a 40lb kettlebell) or are there other exercises I should take advantage of or important nutritional facts I should know to achieve this physique? In short should I be patient and continue S&S and pull ups to eventually reach denser muscle or do I have to do other things to achieve this goal?
  2. Bunn

    Bunn Triple-Digit Post Count

    @Arash Mohammady you need to give it more time. Physical changes take time, stick with S&S and your pullups, maintain good eating habits and the changes will come.
    Billy59 likes this.
  3. Arash Mohammady

    Arash Mohammady Double-Digit Post Count

    Is simple and sinister the best program to develop dense hard muscle? If so does it develop all over the body or in certain areas?
  4. Bunn

    Bunn Triple-Digit Post Count

    Can S&S help you develop dense, solid muscles, yes. Is it the best program to do this, probably not. Personally, I have experienced excellent muscular development across my whole body, to include harder, denser muscles. However, S&S is a GPP program and is not designed to produce large amounts of hypertrophy or targeted muscular development. If you are not looking for a GPP type program, S&S may not be right for you.

    It seems you may need to step back and evaluate what your actual goals are (general strength, hypertrophy, maximal strength, conditioning, etc.). If a GPP program still seems right, stick with S&S and pullups, and be patient. Improvements will come, but they will not come overnight.
    Billy59, Steve Freides, Oscar and 2 others like this.
  5. f_psych

    f_psych Still New to StrongFirst Forum

    I'm on S&S for 4 months. Before that I did 4 cycles of ROP.I'm able to do 5x10+10 with 24 bell under 5 minutes. Still I cannot do more than 2-3 1H Swings with 32. How to progress further?
    Thanks in advance.
  6. Oscar

    Oscar Quadruple-Digit Post Count

    What is limiting you when you use the 32?
    Billy59 likes this.
  7. Arash Mohammady

    Arash Mohammady Double-Digit Post Count

    Hello, this may seem like an odd question but it’s something that has been troubling me. I’ve reached the simple goal with my 40lb kettlebell and looking to move on in higher weight. However I don’t have a gym membership so I cannot simply go to the rack and get myself a 50lb kettlebell and preform my S&S. I furthermore haven’t started my new job yet so I don’t have money to buy a new one. However I have another 15 lb kettlebell and I’m thinking of doing the one arm swing with a hooked grip holding both the 40 and 15 lb kettlebell. I’m also looking to do this with the TGU. I’ve attempted these lifts and they seem do able. My question is should I continue doing S&S with two kettlebells in my hand or should I be patient and continue with the 40 until I get money to buy a new one.
  8. Oscar

    Oscar Quadruple-Digit Post Count

    Do you have access to weight plates? You could tie plates to your 40. I have done it and worked great. If you do it, make sure it's well tied and take other precautions.

    The swing is usually quite demanding on the grip to add the handle of a Second kettlebell.

    In any case, if you are limited to the 40 for a while, you could slightly increase number of sets or number of reps per set.
    Francisco likes this.
  9. f_psych

    f_psych Still New to StrongFirst Forum

    I'm just not so explosive like I am when I use 24 and I simply feel I'm not strong enough for 1H Swings with 32. I can do 10 2H Swings though. I was thinking about doing 5x10 2H Swings and gradually increasing reps (5x11, 5x12 and so on) and then when I work up to 5x20 I can try 5x5+5 1H Swings and gradually increase reps up to 5x10+10. Thoughts?
  10. Bauer

    Bauer More than 500 posts

    From past threads on the topic I remember different progression strategies. Like
    (a) 2H swings to train the hinge,
    (b) 10xX powerful 1H reps on the minute to train the target movement itself, for example 10x1 or 10x3 at the beginning and then slowly adding a rep here, a rep there,
    (c) loaded carries like suitcase carries with the 32kg to train grip endurance,
    (d) more volume with the lighter bell, like up 30 x 10 A+A style, and
    (e) mixing different strategies like mixing 2H swings with 1H swings. For example 2T+2L+2T+2R+2T in on set, as desribed in this article: Simple & Sinister: Getting from Two- to One-Hand Swings | StrongFirst

    You could try one of these strategies every second session or so.
  11. Oscar

    Oscar Quadruple-Digit Post Count

    So you dont have a limiting factor, but feel you are not as explosive as with the 24?

    I'd say that if you can swing it to navel height for a 2 or 4 sets of 3 reps, just add that every other day or 2 times a week.

    You can also consider using a 28. Worked great for me.
    Billy59 likes this.
  12. J Cox

    J Cox Double-Digit Post Count

    Your best bet is to make it work for you. It's a warmup. I have my own mobility complex I use plus simple goblet squats. I don't really pry, just use my hips to pull myself down. I don't bother with the curls.
    Nacho, Discipulus and Billy59 like this.
  13. Arash Mohammady

    Arash Mohammady Double-Digit Post Count

    Can I add kettlebell military press to simple and sinister specifically to increase punching power for martial arts? If yes how do I incorporate it into my training so that I don’t burn out myself since I am trying daily?
  14. Oscar

    Oscar Quadruple-Digit Post Count

    There is an article by Pavel Macek about training an MMA athlete using push press as part of S&S. Dont remember the name
  15. Bauer

    Bauer More than 500 posts

    @Arash Mohammady
    Here we go:
    S&C Training for MMA With Simple & Sinister | StrongFirst
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2019
  16. Nacho

    Nacho Triple-Digit Post Count

    I actually started to do the same. I warmup with os resets and do all GS sets with swing weight and no prying. Seems to work very well.
    Bauer likes this.
  17. J Cox

    J Cox Double-Digit Post Count

    Definitely gives you a good start. I like to slowly lower myself, take a breath or two at the bottom and explode upward. Keep playing with it and see what makes you your best that day.
    Discipulus likes this.
  18. undeadmonk3y

    undeadmonk3y Double-Digit Post Count

    I apologize if this has been asked, I tried to find it and was unsuccessful.

    Backstory:I’m a martial artist and have been out of training for a while. In seeking to get back in shape, I started doing StrongLifts 5x5. Alternating between days of martial arts and heavy lifting was fantastic!

    Fast forward a few months and I’ve been given a position as an instructor at my dojo. I found that training in martial arts with my instructor daily and teaching classes has been too much for my body to keep up with when coupled with Stronglifts. Inflammation, injury, etc.

    I’ve done S&S before and I’ve done PTTP before. I began looking for ways to combine them because I recently invested in an Olympic weight set.

    Everything I’ve seen about combining programs says that you MUST own Simple first.

    My question is: Why?

    I’m not arguing, but genuinely curious because I haven’t seen it explained.

  19. Sean M

    Sean M Quadruple-Digit Post Count

    @undeadmonk3y Check out the revised and updated edition of S&S. “Timeless Simple” is the new first standard (“Simple Challenge” is the 5:00+10:00 time challenge), it is 10 x 10 one-arm swings and 10 getups (5 per side, alternating each rep), with 32kg, done powerfully and explosively in one session (no specific time standard).

    If you can do that, you have enough baseline general strength and power to specialize into other domains such as barbell, double-bell work, etc.
  20. Anna C

    Anna C More than 5000 posts Elite Certified Instructor

    I'm not sure of the answer(s), but my thought would be that an S&S session at "Simple" weights (not necessarily time) is a training session that serves as an effective strength & conditioning stimulus that can then be mixed with other programs.

    Prior to Simple, a session is still an effective stimulus -- but only towards progressing to a heavier weight. One has not reached their S&S potential until Simple. So it's best to dedicate to this goal and progress as the program describes before switching things up, as @Sean M described.

    One question though -- what is or would be your limiter when you attempt a "Simple" test? Sounds like you likely have the background and strength to do it.
    Discipulus and undeadmonk3y like this.

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