S & S Questions - Links

Arash Mohammady

Double-Digit Post Count
Hello comrades, I have a question about how I can get stronger and denser muscle through S&S training and the fighter pull ups program. As of right now I have 10% body fat and my muscles seem to lack in density or hardness department. I’ve only done S&S for almost 2 months and fighter plus for 1 month. So if I continue this training will I achieve stronger denser muscle by continuing this and adding weight to my kettlebells ( currently using a 40lb kettlebell) or are there other exercises I should take advantage of or important nutritional facts I should know to achieve this physique? In short should I be patient and continue S&S and pull ups to eventually reach denser muscle or do I have to do other things to achieve this goal?
 

Arash Mohammady

Double-Digit Post Count
Is simple and sinister the best program to develop dense hard muscle? If so does it develop all over the body or in certain areas?
 

Bunn

Triple-Digit Post Count
Can S&S help you develop dense, solid muscles, yes. Is it the best program to do this, probably not. Personally, I have experienced excellent muscular development across my whole body, to include harder, denser muscles. However, S&S is a GPP program and is not designed to produce large amounts of hypertrophy or targeted muscular development. If you are not looking for a GPP type program, S&S may not be right for you.

It seems you may need to step back and evaluate what your actual goals are (general strength, hypertrophy, maximal strength, conditioning, etc.). If a GPP program still seems right, stick with S&S and pullups, and be patient. Improvements will come, but they will not come overnight.
 

f_psych

Still New to StrongFirst Forum
Hi,
I'm on S&S for 4 months. Before that I did 4 cycles of ROP.I'm able to do 5x10+10 with 24 bell under 5 minutes. Still I cannot do more than 2-3 1H Swings with 32. How to progress further?
Thanks in advance.
 

Oscar

Quadruple-Digit Post Count
Hi,
I'm on S&S for 4 months. Before that I did 4 cycles of ROP.I'm able to do 5x10+10 with 24 bell under 5 minutes. Still I cannot do more than 2-3 1H Swings with 32. How to progress further?
Thanks in advance.
What is limiting you when you use the 32?
 

Arash Mohammady

Double-Digit Post Count
Hello, this may seem like an odd question but it’s something that has been troubling me. I’ve reached the simple goal with my 40lb kettlebell and looking to move on in higher weight. However I don’t have a gym membership so I cannot simply go to the rack and get myself a 50lb kettlebell and preform my S&S. I furthermore haven’t started my new job yet so I don’t have money to buy a new one. However I have another 15 lb kettlebell and I’m thinking of doing the one arm swing with a hooked grip holding both the 40 and 15 lb kettlebell. I’m also looking to do this with the TGU. I’ve attempted these lifts and they seem do able. My question is should I continue doing S&S with two kettlebells in my hand or should I be patient and continue with the 40 until I get money to buy a new one.
 

Oscar

Quadruple-Digit Post Count
Hello, this may seem like an odd question but it’s something that has been troubling me. I’ve reached the simple goal with my 40lb kettlebell and looking to move on in higher weight. However I don’t have a gym membership so I cannot simply go to the rack and get myself a 50lb kettlebell and preform my S&S. I furthermore haven’t started my new job yet so I don’t have money to buy a new one. However I have another 15 lb kettlebell and I’m thinking of doing the one arm swing with a hooked grip holding both the 40 and 15 lb kettlebell. I’m also looking to do this with the TGU. I’ve attempted these lifts and they seem do able. My question is should I continue doing S&S with two kettlebells in my hand or should I be patient and continue with the 40 until I get money to buy a new one.
Do you have access to weight plates? You could tie plates to your 40. I have done it and worked great. If you do it, make sure it's well tied and take other precautions.

The swing is usually quite demanding on the grip to add the handle of a Second kettlebell.

In any case, if you are limited to the 40 for a while, you could slightly increase number of sets or number of reps per set.
 

f_psych

Still New to StrongFirst Forum
What is limiting you when you use the 32?
I'm just not so explosive like I am when I use 24 and I simply feel I'm not strong enough for 1H Swings with 32. I can do 10 2H Swings though. I was thinking about doing 5x10 2H Swings and gradually increasing reps (5x11, 5x12 and so on) and then when I work up to 5x20 I can try 5x5+5 1H Swings and gradually increase reps up to 5x10+10. Thoughts?
 

Bauer

More than 500 posts
I'm just not so explosive like I am when I use 24 and I simply feel I'm not strong enough for 1H Swings with 32. I can do 10 2H Swings though. I was thinking about doing 5x10 2H Swings and gradually increasing reps (5x11, 5x12 and so on) and then when I work up to 5x20 I can try 5x5+5 1H Swings and gradually increase reps up to 5x10+10. Thoughts?
From past threads on the topic I remember different progression strategies. Like
(a) 2H swings to train the hinge,
(b) 10xX powerful 1H reps on the minute to train the target movement itself, for example 10x1 or 10x3 at the beginning and then slowly adding a rep here, a rep there,
(c) loaded carries like suitcase carries with the 32kg to train grip endurance,
(d) more volume with the lighter bell, like up 30 x 10 A+A style, and
(e) mixing different strategies like mixing 2H swings with 1H swings. For example 2T+2L+2T+2R+2T in on set, as desribed in this article: Simple & Sinister: Getting from Two- to One-Hand Swings | StrongFirst

You could try one of these strategies every second session or so.
 

Oscar

Quadruple-Digit Post Count
I'm just not so explosive like I am when I use 24 and I simply feel I'm not strong enough for 1H Swings with 32. I can do 10 2H Swings though. I was thinking about doing 5x10 2H Swings and gradually increasing reps (5x11, 5x12 and so on) and then when I work up to 5x20 I can try 5x5+5 1H Swings and gradually increase reps up to 5x10+10. Thoughts?
So you dont have a limiting factor, but feel you are not as explosive as with the 24?

I'd say that if you can swing it to navel height for a 2 or 4 sets of 3 reps, just add that every other day or 2 times a week.

You can also consider using a 28. Worked great for me.
 

J Cox

Double-Digit Post Count
This is so confusing to me. I have read many books by Pavel and I love how he makes things simple and effective for people, but I just cant seem to get the GS in S&S.
I read the part in the book (once again) and the GS seems to make perfect sense as a warm up. He describes how you should stay at the bottom, relax and find space etc. Nothing really indicates that you should use a whole lot of strenght and energy during this. Lovely!

But then it gets confusing to me. - > "Do 3x5 reps, resting between them if necessary". And if I add all together and match the weight to my swings and do the curls, this would take me quite a while and I would be pretty much done after those to be honest. Btw, if it makes any difference, Im 189cm tall with long legs, so maybe squat is relatively harder for me. ( I do swings & get ups with 26kg and 32kg )

Part of me wants to just do roughly 2x3 light GS`s with prying and curling on every rep and I feel I should be warmed up for swings. Especially as Im doing S&S almost daily and I have always been fairly mobile. I dont really feel like Im getting much warmer or mobile after the first set of warmups.
However, thats not by the book and Im trying to do everthing I can not to do things "my way".
But Pavel also mentions that "The above regimen is meant to bring a moderately tight but healthy person up to speed"... So, could I maybe cut a corner here... ?

Maybe its best to just try and find what works the best for me. I just dont want to do anything stupid. And I can see from yours and other training logs, that people really seem to do swing weight goblet squats 3x5 as a warmup. That makes me feel like Im missing some leg strenght or something if I only do a few light ones.

Sorry for a lot of random thoughts. As I said, confused. :)
Your best bet is to make it work for you. It's a warmup. I have my own mobility complex I use plus simple goblet squats. I don't really pry, just use my hips to pull myself down. I don't bother with the curls.
 

Arash Mohammady

Double-Digit Post Count
Can I add kettlebell military press to simple and sinister specifically to increase punching power for martial arts? If yes how do I incorporate it into my training so that I don’t burn out myself since I am trying daily?
 

Oscar

Quadruple-Digit Post Count
Can I add kettlebell military press to simple and sinister specifically to increase punching power for martial arts? If yes how do I incorporate it into my training so that I don’t burn out myself since I am trying daily?
There is an article by Pavel Macek about training an MMA athlete using push press as part of S&S. Dont remember the name
 

Bauer

More than 500 posts
There is an article by Pavel Macek about training an MMA athlete using push press as part of S&S. Dont remember the name
@Arash Mohammady
Here we go:
Once Viktor got to heavier get-ups (36 kg+), we started to alternate get-ups with push presses (Pavel Tsatsouline’s recommendation). One day we did swings and get-ups, the other day swings and push presses. Push presses were also done in an S&S way – 10×10 with a focus on maximum power output, with Fast & Loose shadow boxing between the rounds.
S&C Training for MMA With Simple & Sinister | StrongFirst
 
Last edited:

Nacho

Triple-Digit Post Count
Your best bet is to make it work for you. It's a warmup. I have my own mobility complex I use plus simple goblet squats. I don't really pry, just use my hips to pull myself down. I don't bother with the curls.
I actually started to do the same. I warmup with os resets and do all GS sets with swing weight and no prying. Seems to work very well.
 

J Cox

Double-Digit Post Count
I actually started to do the same. I warmup with os resets and do all GS sets with swing weight and no prying. Seems to work very well.
Definitely gives you a good start. I like to slowly lower myself, take a breath or two at the bottom and explode upward. Keep playing with it and see what makes you your best that day.
 

undeadmonk3y

Double-Digit Post Count
I apologize if this has been asked, I tried to find it and was unsuccessful.

Backstory:I’m a martial artist and have been out of training for a while. In seeking to get back in shape, I started doing StrongLifts 5x5. Alternating between days of martial arts and heavy lifting was fantastic!

Fast forward a few months and I’ve been given a position as an instructor at my dojo. I found that training in martial arts with my instructor daily and teaching classes has been too much for my body to keep up with when coupled with Stronglifts. Inflammation, injury, etc.

I’ve done S&S before and I’ve done PTTP before. I began looking for ways to combine them because I recently invested in an Olympic weight set.

Everything I’ve seen about combining programs says that you MUST own Simple first.

My question is: Why?

I’m not arguing, but genuinely curious because I haven’t seen it explained.

Thanks!
 

Sean M

Quadruple-Digit Post Count
@undeadmonk3y Check out the revised and updated edition of S&S. “Timeless Simple” is the new first standard (“Simple Challenge” is the 5:00+10:00 time challenge), it is 10 x 10 one-arm swings and 10 getups (5 per side, alternating each rep), with 32kg, done powerfully and explosively in one session (no specific time standard).

If you can do that, you have enough baseline general strength and power to specialize into other domains such as barbell, double-bell work, etc.
 

Anna C

More than 5000 posts
Elite Certified Instructor
Everything I’ve seen about combining programs says that you MUST own Simple first.

My question is: Why?
I'm not sure of the answer(s), but my thought would be that an S&S session at "Simple" weights (not necessarily time) is a training session that serves as an effective strength & conditioning stimulus that can then be mixed with other programs.

Prior to Simple, a session is still an effective stimulus -- but only towards progressing to a heavier weight. One has not reached their S&S potential until Simple. So it's best to dedicate to this goal and progress as the program describes before switching things up, as @Sean M described.

One question though -- what is or would be your limiter when you attempt a "Simple" test? Sounds like you likely have the background and strength to do it.
 
Top Bottom