Other/Mixed Why Hypertrophy?

[LarryB]

Seems like a shallow position though. If I take it to some more absurd lengths (but stop short of the obvious human trafficking example), if I buy a dog and beat it, is that ethical? Or if I buy a well and dump poison down it, poisoning the groundwater is that ethical?

If my actions affect others, the ethics of those actions should be considered as a general part of living an examined life.

I understand that it’s a simplistic thought, and that I was stew maning it, but eating a lot of beef or protein isn’t beating a dog or human trafficking. I’m looking at this as an American also. i think @Hung had a pretty good point of view. He still tries to eat to meet “his” needs though.

 

[watchnerd]

LOL this thread is getting dumber the longer it goes on....

 

[watchnerd]

Lean muscle mass acts as a glucose sink and helps make it easier to clear it out of the bloodstream.

The relationship between diabetes and muscle mass

InBody Clinical Team describes the relationship between diabetes, one of the most common diseases of the modern age, and muscle mass

www.openaccessgovernment.org

And a danger for "skinny fat" people:

However, these findings make it seem like only those with high weight are at risk for diabetes, but that is not the case. In fact, so-called “skinny fat” (Sarcopenia), individuals with a normal or low BMI but a high percent body fat, are at an increased risk to develop diabetes or prediabetes.

So, less crawling, more hypertrophy.

 

[silveraw]

Must be referring to outliers like dudes under 5'8 or something. I suppose a tiny physique might indicate some issues with organs or something, perhaps other abnormalities become more common. It's an interesting topic.

Well yeah… but people are making it seem like hypertrophy means world class natural bodybuilder.
So just going with the theme.

 

[Joel the Savage]

So, less crawling, more hypertrophy.

This unfortunately is the reason I spent a few years away from these forums. Everything has to be "big bicep bad, unfunctional size, it is not natural" and so on.

If it is something i regret from "the past" (i'm 36) it is not doing more hypertrophy work.

It is ok to regret things, you don't have to bang your chest and be proud of every single thing you have done and then rationalize why it was correct (being rational is good, rationalizing is bad). We make mistakes, we admit mistakes, we move on. No one cares but ourselves.

Well yeah… but people are making it seem like hypertrophy means world class natural bodybuilder.
So just going with the theme.

Yes. It could mean (like the diabetes part) to even out "muscle-to-mass-ratio" (don't know if thats an actual term, just made it up) to get rid of diabetes.

 

[Joel the Savage]

Must be referring to outliers like dudes under 5'8 or something. I suppose a tiny physique might indicate some issues with organs or something, perhaps other abnormalities become more common. It's an interesting topic.

5'8 is hardly tiny, says the 5'7 (171cm) savage.

 

[Pete L]

@Adachi do you have a training partner?
My recollection of Dorian Yates 90s training was based on forced reps and a drop set approach.
I doubt this approach can be fully realised training at home alone.

 

[TimothyGander]

OTOH a bodybuilder's physique does not appeal to most people. So there is a muscular but functional norm ingrained in us.

Question is, how much dedicated hypertrophy training is needed to look muscular but functional if you have a healthy endocrine system?

Seems like a shallow position though. If I take it to some more absurd lengths (but stop short of the obvious human trafficking example), if I buy a dog and beat it, is that ethical? Or if I buy a well and dump poison down it, poisoning the groundwater is that ethical?

I think this concerns different forms of ownership. Buying a well gives you access to, but not ownership of the groundwater. In case of the dog, if you live in a Western or a Westernized country, animal ownership is no longer considered a straightforward property right, but one that comes with an obligation of care and minimizing discomfort. I don't think either of those cases applies to buying food.

 

[North Coast Miller]

@Adachi do you have a training partner?
My recollection of Dorian Yates 90s training was based on forced reps and a drop set approach.
I doubt this approach can be fully realised training at home alone.

You can't really dig deep on HIT-type workouts without a partner. Maybe 2 on squat day.

 

[Pantrolyx]

Has anyone seen this Anatoly masquerading as a cleaner guy on Instagram?

Indeed I have, that guy is hilarious and brutally effective at hurting egos of other gym members!

 

[Adachi]

@Adachi do you have a training partner?

I do not

I doubt this approach can be fully realised training at home alone.

That may be true

You can't really dig deep on HIT-type workouts without a partner. Maybe 2 on squat day.

This may be correct

--------------------------

However interested I am in the basic paradigm of using brevity, intensity and infrequency of my attempts at hypertrophy work, I'm not so enamoured of any particular named HIT protocol.

So I've tried a few things and I'm trying to compare notes between them a bit. I've tried single set to positive failure. I've added reps by putting some body English into the concentric to get into using the more difficult negative . and I've done multiple sets and arranged them in ladders and repeat sets. I am playing with the dose , looking at how my body responds.

One of the things that startled me last week was something I didn't always grant similar attention to. The infrequency. Last week was the first week that I saw a big bump in size for my side delts. on the 7th and 8th days after the previous shoulder workout. Which for me is just kettlebell upright rows;using varied experimental loading distribution.

I was standing in the shower moving my arm around looking at my shoulder thinking, hey, what's that ? Almost like I got a new mole or something. So, I get out and look in the mirror. Sure enough, there's a valley forming between the front and side heads of the delts that wasn't there before. It's one of the largest changes and it came late. Very late after the previous set of work.

Looking back this morning, if I had to guess, upright rows , 32kg , 2 sets of 10-15 reps, once a week might be where the money is at for my shoulders, at least for now for where I am and the equipment I have, etc. My biceps are definitely different and may call for twice a week 32kg kettlebell crush curl 5/2 or 10/1. That's less clear.

However ill advised any of these particular laid out HIT plans may be , however difficult it may be to implement them without a partner, there is something in there that I recognize as having some utility.

The fortitude to dig deep into intensity.​

The patience to wait until adaptation has had its chance.​

And the intuition to do just enough, Not too much.​

I'm much more thoroughly inducted to Strong Endurance methods. I'm using Strong Endurance Template 14 to drive hypertrophy, via swings and pushups.

 

[silveraw]

animal ownership is no longer considered a straightforward property right, but one that comes with an obligation of care and minimizing discomfort. I don't think either of those cases applies to buying food.

See you are speaking of legalities.

Laws aren’t ethics and ethics are not laws. Ethics are considering the morals of your actions.

Laws are threats posed by the dominate socio economic group in a given nation.

Two different things.

 

[TimothyGander]

See you are speaking of legalities.

Where did I mention law or legality? I was discussing why the examples you provided are not equivalent to purchasing and consuming food, or at least might be seen as not equivalent. I didn't mean to state that was what the law has to say (and what law exactly? There are so many different legal systems around the world, many of which in fact do not criminalize i.e. animal cruelty) but what I believe and what, I assume, most Western and Westernized people would believe regardless of the legal regime they happen to live under.

 

[silveraw]

Where did I mention law or legality? I was discussing why the examples you provided are not equivalent to purchasing and consuming food, or at least might be seen as not equivalent. I didn't mean to state that was what the law has to say (and what law exactly? There are so many different legal systems around the world, many of which in fact do not criminalize i.e. animal cruelty) but what I believe and what, I assume, most Western and Westernized people would believe regardless of the legal regime they happen to live under.

if you live in a Western or a Westernized country, animal ownership is no longer considered a straightforward property right, but one that comes with an obligation of care and minimizing discomfort.

You are either speaking of animal cruelty laws or stating that ownership has ethical obligations.

If it’s the former that’s why I brought up laws, if the latter then I’m not sure what the disagreement is.

Unless you are trying to say that one form of ownership has ethical considerations while others don’t. In that case I would be curious about where you draw the line and why.

Ignoring the fact that ownership itself is a legal construct of course. And water rights ownership is a thing as well.

 

[Steve Freides]

Lean muscle mass acts as a glucose sink and helps make it easier to clear it out of the bloodstream.

The relationship between diabetes and muscle mass

InBody Clinical Team describes the relationship between diabetes, one of the most common diseases of the modern age, and muscle mass

www.openaccessgovernment.org

Do people who aren’t overweight need a “glucose sink?”

-S-

 

[silveraw]

Do people who aren’t overweight need a “glucose sink?”

-S-

If they have diabetes it is more important, but generally it contributes to good metabolic health.

Diabetes isn’t solely an obesity issue too.

(Also maybe I need to qualify statements since this is a weird thread. Yes there is a thing as too much muscle mass where it starts to have a net negative health effect. But don’t worry, you won’t get there accidentally)

 

[North Coast Miller]

@Adachi
Your observations re delayed peaking of adaptive response are something I frequently notice when running hypertrophy focused training blocks.

In my belief system it is important to not let the body reach that full response without more training as I suspect it is already adapting to the reduced load just as there was a delay in positive adaptive response.

 

[TimothyGander]

Unless you are trying to say that one form of ownership has ethical considerations while others don’t. In that case I would be curious about where you draw the line and why.

Something like that. I would at least claim that some forms of ownership come with explicit and easily definable ethical dilemmas while others don't. I draw the line at animals because I believe they can feel some measure of pain, suffering, fear etc. and therefore it should be minimized. (I don't have a clear ruleset on this. I do eat meat, for example). I do generally believe that if something is wrong, then it's wrong irrespective of property rights - i.e. poisoning people is generally wrong. I'm not sure how either of those pertains to consuming food one has purchased (vegan/vegetarian arguments do not really apply there - it was about food quantity, not type).

 

[Adachi]

@Adachi
Your observations re delayed peaking of adaptive response are something I frequently notice when running hypertrophy focused training blocks.

In my belief system it is important to not let the body reach that full response without more training as I suspect it is already adapting to the reduced load just as there was a delay in positive adaptive response.

Maybe I should note, this is consistent with most hypertrophy programs having a heavy day and a light day at least. Even if the developmental day is repeated a week or more apart in the schedule

 

[solarbear]

Question is, how much dedicated hypertrophy training is needed to look muscular but functional if you have a healthy endocrine system?

I am not sure a lot of direct hypertrophy work is actually needed to achieve the physique most people desire. I often peruse some of the fitness forums on reddit and the majority of the time I think to myself "you're skinny fat just run the Giant, you will build the X illusion you are after and drop the fat you want." No one believes that simply eating like an adult and running a 2 exercise program 3x per week is the answer though so no sense in even typing a response to most of them.

Saw a proper body builder the other day. He was obviously cutting for a show as he had some serious striations going. Was sort of an unpleasant look to see in real life. OTOH when I passed a pro Rugby League team in Sydney, most of the guys were built like linebackers, and thought wow those guys are looking great. So yeah, I think there is a line between athletic and freaky and one is definitely more appealing to most people on an aesthetic level.