Other/Mixed Why Hypertrophy?
- Thread starter Adachi
- Start date
Other strength modalities (e.g., Clubs), mixed strength modalities (e.g., combined kettlebell and barbell), other goals (flexibility)
watchnerd
Level 8 Valued Member
What I think is failure when I'm solo vs when someone is yelling at me is different.
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LukeV
Level 7 Valued Member
I’ve never had a training partner so when mucking around with HIT I quickly gravitated to machines. It was that or start taking risks with my health and that of my fellow gym goers. Then machines became vital with post-failure protocols. I never noticed any difference hypertrophy wise between machines and free weights. I was working out every 5 to 7 days, (more or less) and got good but not great results. In fact the results were very good for the level of time commitment but any program I did with more orthodox focus on multiple sets and frequency at 2+ workouts weekly was superior
Ege
Level 6 Valued Member
There might be many corner cases for someone to like or dislike to work on hypertrophy. Or to work on a hypertrophy program or not. It is great to hear both sides of the coin rather than being in a community that mostly talks about glute size.
I just want to underline one fact that, for the majority of the population including most of health experts, there is no difference in between strength protocols versus hypertrophy protocols.
They would look in to a hypertrophy program and a strength program and classify both as resistance training with the only purpose of building lean muscle.
I am hard pressed to think a person who takes his/her strength training serious to suffer from muscles loss related health issues unless they have quite a disadvantageous genetic issue.
I just want to underline one fact that, for the majority of the population including most of health experts, there is no difference in between strength protocols versus hypertrophy protocols.
They would look in to a hypertrophy program and a strength program and classify both as resistance training with the only purpose of building lean muscle.
I am hard pressed to think a person who takes his/her strength training serious to suffer from muscles loss related health issues unless they have quite a disadvantageous genetic issue.
LukeV
Level 7 Valued Member
I was in Indonesia recently and went to a 5* hotel for Sunday brunch. (Of course, I took the champagne package in return for my life savings.) The venue was full of people younger, better dressed and wealthier looking than me including a table full of super models. (And I mean super models, not that just phenomenon where once you turn 50 everyone under 30 looks drop-dead gorgeous.) These were about 10 or so super models there for some fashion shoot. What struck me apart from their attractiveness was how really healthy they all looked - the days of uber-skinny and heroin chic are clearly over. They all looked like they did resistance training and ate a lot of protein. Times have changed!
LukeV
Level 7 Valued Member
I haven’t read that study but it wasn’t what Schoenfeld’s famous study concluded. He concluded that to failure training was (probably) not required for optimal muscle growth. Mind you he went on to suggest that lifters do it sometimes.Re: Mentzer
"On a general level, our meta-analysis indicates that training to failure isn’t necessary for maximizing muscular strength or hypertrophy. That said, numerous gaps in the literature preclude our ability to draw strong conclusions on the topic."
» Do You Need to Train to Failure: Insights From Our New Meta-Analysis
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Ege
Level 6 Valued Member
Machines are better than free weights for Hypertrophy in my experience, almost zero learning curve and pure focus on providing the muscles the required stimuli for hypertrophy.
Machines could be a part of an advanced persons speciality work or a part of a rehab program. (I am adding this because I know someone will jump in and tell this, in my rehab after knee surgery sled pushes and pulls made the biggest contribution) But I believe majority of the population should stay away from them.
In my experience hypertrophy that is machine induced had almost zero cary over to my everyday performance and strength except very early stages of my exercise journey.
I always consider myself lucky, I have a “strong” look for my size, in the early days of my fitness journey after long years of sedentary life, after trimming excessive fat, I was looking reasonably fit with machines. I was literally getting humbled and embarrassed with grocery shopping. I was thinking that I was stronger when I had a sedentary life with just a higher BMI. Which probably was the case indeed although I was using “heavier” plates w machines.
I know there are might be many studies that would tell otherwise, but my experience is this way. If it does not work for me, I will not use machines, for some they might deliver the results they want, not for me.
Dayz
Level 8 Valued Member
This is nothing to do with anything, just sharing my recent hypertrophy results.
After years of kettlebell training, I just spent about 20 weeks running a 6 day bodybuilding style Push/Pull/Legs split, with lots of variety each week (ie both push workouts are different, etc). Two compound lifts per workout and two isolations.
I never went below 10 reps. Vast majority in the 10-20 range, for three hard sets, 0-2 RIR. A few lifts like rear delts, side delts, etc, went to 30 reps occasionally.
Results:
- I gained 8kg but still consider myself lean. 82 to 90kg (guessing that's about 182 to 200lbs).
- Everything grew immensely, especially neglected muscle groups: biceps, triceps, quads, side delts, calves most noticeably.
- I just hit an all time record for me on the KB Press: 40kg for 1 rep each side despite doing NO overhead pressing the entire 20 weeks. The whole time I only did flat and incline bench with BB and DB, dips, weighted pushups, and shoulder and tricep isolations.
- None of this is impressive or strange. But why hypertrophy training? If you want to get bigger and stronger.
After years of kettlebell training, I just spent about 20 weeks running a 6 day bodybuilding style Push/Pull/Legs split, with lots of variety each week (ie both push workouts are different, etc). Two compound lifts per workout and two isolations.
I never went below 10 reps. Vast majority in the 10-20 range, for three hard sets, 0-2 RIR. A few lifts like rear delts, side delts, etc, went to 30 reps occasionally.
Results:
- I gained 8kg but still consider myself lean. 82 to 90kg (guessing that's about 182 to 200lbs).
- Everything grew immensely, especially neglected muscle groups: biceps, triceps, quads, side delts, calves most noticeably.
- I just hit an all time record for me on the KB Press: 40kg for 1 rep each side despite doing NO overhead pressing the entire 20 weeks. The whole time I only did flat and incline bench with BB and DB, dips, weighted pushups, and shoulder and tricep isolations.
- None of this is impressive or strange. But why hypertrophy training? If you want to get bigger and stronger.
Ege
Level 6 Valued Member
I know I am going to get criticism because I have no data. But that healthy look most of the time is supported with PED’s IMHO.
Either the fitness experts that I respect and follow are all genetically disabled, or the “models” are using PEDs.
North Coast Miller
Level 9 Valued Member
There's a type of magic at work just having a spotter put their hands near the weight, in some cases having them select your training load.
North Coast Miller
Level 9 Valued Member
The biggest differenve between all but the true heavyweight class BBer and someone doing basic training for a number of years all comes down to bf manipulation. You could take many athletes and turn them into BBer esque without adding any additional muscle mass.
Even in my case, if I dropped 15lbs to a bf of about 7% and got a tan, I'd "look" a lot more like a BBer.
LukeV
Level 7 Valued Member
8kg in 5 months (if that's lean tissue and not fat) is very impressive - it doesn't come better than that without PEDs. In fact usually lifters won't achieve anywhere near that without PEDs
Kenny Croxdale
Level 7 Valued Member
The Benefit of Machines
I have posted information on this before. So, here we go again.
The benefit of machines is that theyh place the workload on the Primary Muscles involved in an exercise.
Machines for the most part don't do not allow you to modifiy the movement when Muscle Fatigue sets in.
Free Weight Technique
As we know, in a Free Weight Movements, Technique is altered when Muscle Fatigue set in.
That meaning the Excise that you started off with end up being something completely different when Muscle Fatigue occurs.
As per...
Machine for Hypertrophy and Maximum Strength
Let me reiterate once more, Machines allow the Primary Muscle to be Maximally OverLoaded.
That because one of the limiting factors in Free Weight Movements is the Stabilizer Muscles; they are the weaklink in the chain.
The Dowside of Machines
The benefit of Machine eliminating the Stabilizer Muscles is also one their downsides. Stabilizer Muscle are not developed and trained.
The Strength of The Stabilizer Muscle plays a huge role in Free Weight Movements.
There Are Multiple Difference Between Maximum Strength and Hypertrophy Training
I am sure you realize this. The following is for other who are familiar with it.
1) Maximum Strength Training
It utilizes the Phosphagen Energy Sysem, employs 1-6 Repetition Per Set, is performed with Load of 85% of 1 Repetition Max or more with Rest Periods Beween Set of 3 minutes plus. Pavel recommened some Maxium Strength Rest of around 15 minutes.
2) Hypertrophy Strength Training
It is predominately in the Glycolytic Energy System, 8 Repetition or Higher, Load of around 60-80% of 1 Repetition Maxx, and usually Short Rest Period of around 60 Second between Sets, to Maximize "The Pump".
Maintaing Muscle Mass
Some type of Resistance Training ensure Muscle Mass is protected and preserved when employed by the majority of the population.
Healthy Looking Individuals
So, the take away is that Healhy Looking Individal are on PED.
Torin
Level 6 Valued Member
Are you saying that you're going to start minimizing your food intake because you've found it unethical to eat more than a sustenance level diet in light of global food shortages?
Adam R Mundorf
Level 7 Valued Member
I definitely make sure my fridge, freezer and pantry is empty before buying more. I also only prepare what I'm certain I can consume.
Truth.
silveraw
Level 9 Valued Member
I’m saying “if you own it do what you want” is dumb.
Legally owning something doesn't impart a default of being ethically able to do what you want with it. (see post about difference between ethics and legality)
If I eat 200g of protein a day, that doesn't practically effect starvation in the DRC or in my local community. But if there is a storm coming and I go to the store and buy the last 7 gallons of milk and only need half a gallon, that is 6.5 gallons of milk someone else could have actually used in a time of need. (replace with whatever resource you like)
Basically don't mindlessly consume.
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We are big, for reasons of time, on making a batch of food and then eating leftovers. I cannot bear - perhaps it's ethics, but more likely it's because my parents grew up in the Great Depression - to see food go to waste, so I typically look for whatever oldest in the 'frig when it's time to eat. (Reseable glass containers are a modern marvel in how long they keep food fresh.)
-S-
Pete L
Level 6 Valued Member
I have friends who serve up all the cooked food onto plates and then throw away what isn't eaten. It brings me out in hives.
silveraw
Level 9 Valued Member
Same. Grew up with my great grandfather telling me stories about the Great Depression and it has impacted how I view food waste.
A lot of those habits are certainly becoming more useful with the current state of food prices too.
Although it is ironic that a lot of the “poor food” is now rather expensive compared to then. The tough cuts of meat are delicacies now.