Burning fat vs. burning sugar

Discussion in 'Other' started by banzaiengr, Nov 28, 2016.

  1. mprevost

    mprevost More than 500 posts

    Another question to consider is what are the implications of excessive METCON in terms of muscle hypertrophy?
     
  2. North Coast Miller

    North Coast Miller More than 2500 posts


    You'd have to define "excessive" at least in an individual study.

    I've tried to find info on body comp/weight changes of riders in the Tour de France or other long duration events and not having much luck. For as long as it lasts and at that intensity I'd expect any muscle mass catabolism to rear its head before the end. This is probably confidential team data.

    I don't think we need to consider they might be gaining mass as they go...


    Team Sky's Nutrition Preparation for the Tour de France

    ---"Daily energy expenditure could vary from 4000 to 9000 kcal per day depending on the rider body mass and of course the intensity and duration of the day. For example, short time trials, flat stages, and mountain stages etc.

    We have built up what we consider a good understanding of the different energy demands of each stage for each rider and therefore we try and guide our riders accordingly to adjust their energy intake each day. This means that we very rarely see weight changes over the course of the TDF and we would expect riders to finish the race with no more than 0.5 kg of a difference in relation to their starting weight."---
     
  3. mprevost

    mprevost More than 500 posts

    Well, certainly in that context (TDF riders), you would expect some suppression of hypertrophy even though you see some riders with what appears to be big legs (cause or effect?). I suspect that METCON is not helpful. When I see skinny guys doing burpees and air squats, I wonder what they are trying to accomplish.
     
    conor78 likes this.
  4. North Coast Miller

    North Coast Miller More than 2500 posts

    I would have to agree it not being very helpful as anything approaching a steady diet. Maybe working on lactate threshold? If that were the case you wouldn't need or want a lot of volume/week.

    Interesting enough while reading about TDF it appears low cortisol levels are grounds for a doping investigation. Cortisone products seem to be widely (ab)used as well, and I have to wonder if this wouldn't blunt much of the negative effects on protein synthesis, on top of the other effects.
     
  5. offwidth

    offwidth More than 5000 posts

    Typically when you see professional bike racers with big legs they are either track riders or in the case of the TDF (and similar) they are sprint or flat stage specialists, and not GC contenders. Guys that are GC contenders need to be good climbers. Typically I guess what one might call 'wiry'. With any events of this nature at the end of the day you need to be able to 'carry your own engine'...
     
    Anna C likes this.
  6. Kettlebelephant

    Kettlebelephant Quadruple-Digit Post Count

    Also take into a account the massive use of PEDs in the world of professional sport, especially cycling...
    I'm sure they take stuff to prevent or reduce lean mass catabolism.
    A study like that wouldn't yield results that you can apply to the general population IMO.

    Endurance.
    I knew a lot of them back when I did crossfit. Couchpotatos and even weekend warriors will experience big improvements in endurance from doing metcons.
    You probably need to understand that they define "endurance" different compared to you. They never test something like a half-marathon or similar. They define "more endurance" as the small things like not sucking wind anymore while carrying their groceries back home or going up 4-5 flights of stairs.
    Metcons will do that for you.

    It's hard to tell someone with a busy job, family etc. that for long term results it's probably better to follow a plan of hour(s) long slow locomotion work a couple times per week, when they experience big improvements in endurance (-> how they define the word) with 2-3 5-10min metcons per week and afterwards feeling "accomplishment", because they "crushed the workout".
    I did both kinds of sessions in my life and I honestly have to say lying on the ground in a pile of my sweat and slowly regaining a normal breath pattern feels better/more satisfying than coming home from a 90min LSD run staying below your MAF HR.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2017
    offwidth likes this.
  7. mprevost

    mprevost More than 500 posts

    I don't disagree with any of that. But skinny Crossfit guys doing burpees and air squats will get better at burpees and air squats. If they truly want to improve across the spectrum of Crossfit WODs, they would be better off minimizing the METCON and maximizing the basic strength work. Excessive METCON work has a high recovery cost, and may be catabolic due to cortisol and supression of mTOR. At the very least, METCON is not an optimal loading scheme for strength or hypertrophy. I think most people who are doing lots of METCON have no idea why they are doing it. 5-10 minutes of METCON twice per week is plenty for almost everyone.
     
    conor78 and Steve Freides like this.
  8. Kettlebelephant

    Kettlebelephant Quadruple-Digit Post Count

    Yes of course, but that would mean taking the time and effort to first educate yourself how to do that and then putting in the time and effort to work on those things and most people simply don't want that.
    They want the "3min quick fix".
    I'm totally with you with everything you say, just trying to explain why skinny guys do burpee + airsquat metcons. They just don't know better and a lot of them don't even care to better educate themselves.​
     
    mprevost likes this.
  9. offwidth

    offwidth More than 5000 posts

    Maybe off topic a bit but Spartan racers incur a 30burpee penalty for every missed obstacle. I actually know some who purposely train burpees to be prepared for this. ( sadly, I tried that too... )

    Better is to train the elements of the obstacles to minimize or avoid burpees altogether...
     
  10. North Coast Miller

    North Coast Miller More than 2500 posts

    I'm no fan of Burpees either. And yes, Metcons at 20 minutes a week total are good enough. Maybe a little more if you're going to be really pushing yourself. It could save your lunch...
     
  11. ali

    ali Quadruple-Digit Post Count

    For GPP, in terms of training and diet, generally speaking, being metabolically flexible is a good healthy base. Being adaptable to utilise body fat for fuel when it suits the modality, that of lower intensity general life or aerobic activity or being able to fast now and then without feeling the need to chew off your own forearm. And also to be able to utilise glucose when needed for exercise at higher intensities and to keep creatine and glycogen stores topped off, ready, if needed/wanted, to be employed. And it keeps those hormones happy.
    And....if not focusing here on fat loss dieting....a sensible mixed diet in moderation covers that.
     
  12. mprevost

    mprevost More than 500 posts

    Very true. In my first second Spartan race they had a spear throw practice area. Before the race I nailed 20 out of 20 tries. During the race I missed, 30 burpees. Oh well. Other than that, no burpees, just running and obstacles.
     
    offwidth likes this.
  13. conor78

    conor78 More than 500 posts Certified Instructor

    My brother was training for an MMA white collar bout for 6 months and burpees and sprawls were a massive part of the conditioning element of the training. They had a session where they had to nail 1000 burpees in a heated room where the doors were sealed and windows taped. He also works a postman so he walks quite a bit. To me it looked like he was overtrained as had very little energy coming into the fight and actually gassed out in the first round. I'm sure there a lots of reasons for this, but he hasn't done a burpee since. I train goalkeepers for soccer and they are useful as they are sport specific. I would limit to 5 and use a football with them to replicate a match situation.
     

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