Yep, comp bells with thinner,smaller horns and the consistent bell size, harder then reg bells for the weight in bottoms up.
Kettlebell Does anyone else think the "big jumps" of kettlebells is a little fishy?
- Thread starter Eric Wilson
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Eric Wilson
Level 6 Valued Member
Maybe that's true, I haven't tried ROP at 12kg. But I wouldn't be surprised if I can do 5x(1,2,3,4,5) at 12kg, yet 16kg is still not ready for ROP, which is the crux of the issue. I think that ROP at 14 kg would actually be a good fit for me right now, and that 16% increase wouldn't feel like "micro-loading" to me.
Try to increase my weight? Easier said than done. I mean, I've made some improvements, I was at 124 last year, I'm please to have made some gains, but my body resists putting on fat or muscle. (I'm currently on a hypertrophy program, and eating to the point of discomfort ... who knows, maybe I'll get to 135?)
John Grahill
Level 8 Valued Member
Eric, use what you can handle. No shame. "Training life" is a marathon, not a sprint!
You will eventually manhandle the 16 for 5x5 ladders but start lighter with what you can handle.
I understand the "easier said than done" about the body weight thing....I actually have the opposite issue....if I don't consistently train and watch my diet I blow up! I have said that I can hear myself getting fatter! Just keep at it.
You will eventually manhandle the 16 for 5x5 ladders but start lighter with what you can handle.
I understand the "easier said than done" about the body weight thing....I actually have the opposite issue....if I don't consistently train and watch my diet I blow up! I have said that I can hear myself getting fatter! Just keep at it.
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Maybe RoP just isn't the right program for big jumps. With large jumps and static weights of kettlebells, we just need to do the program that aligns to where we currently are. Sometimes it's S&S, sometimes it's Q&D, sometimes it's RoP, sometimes it's Soju & Tuba, others times we just have make something up that covers the movement pattern we're after and has a logical progression.
I think it's worth considering a list of progressive programs as a sort of curriculum that build upon each other. Something that starts with a difficult weight and culminates with a program that same weight is easy enough to make the next big jump.
I think it's worth considering a list of progressive programs as a sort of curriculum that build upon each other. Something that starts with a difficult weight and culminates with a program that same weight is easy enough to make the next big jump.
Grab your 12kg, do 5 sets of 3-5 reps each side, of presses, rest as needed, 2-3 times a week for 6 weeks. Then try your 16.
You could also add a clean in the middle and alternate hands, cln press right, switch bell to left however you want, cln press ,repeat 3-5 a side.
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Eric Wilson
Level 6 Valued Member
I'm in the midst of doing 5 sets of 8 reps of double presses with 2x12kg, 2 times a week. In two more weeks I'll test the 16kg on each side. Hoping I get at least 3 good reps each side at that time.
Very nice. Guessing that will be a done deal.
A lot of cooks and cooking on this post, but if it was me trying to jump to next bell, I would not be doing 8's or doubles.
Eric Wilson
Level 6 Valued Member
I'm open to hearing why you wouldn't go to 8 or doubles. I choose 5x8 double press because I thought some hypertrophy could help, given my lack of mucsle mass.
I'm also interested in why you quickly changed your opinion from "that's great" to "bad idea"
Also -- to be more clear -- I'm doing 5x8 double C&P. I have no idea how the including the cleans changes things, but that's what I'm doing right now.
watchnerd
Level 8 Valued Member
What's the program you're doing?
Outside work could be helping your KB lifts, or interfering, depending on what it is and how it's programmed.
I'll start with the great part. You mentioned issues with the 16. Then I saw the 5x8 with dbls and I'm thinking a 16 should fly up and you could do a 20 no prob. Great. Yes, I believe the 5x8's ( are you doing LC, a cln prior to every press?) can put some mass on your shoulders. For some reason I was thinking the 16 was the issue/goal.I'm open to hearing why you wouldn't go to 8 or doubles. I choose 5x8 double press because I thought some hypertrophy could help, given my lack of mucsle mass.
I'm also interested in why you quickly changed your opinion from "that's great" to "bad idea"
Also -- to be more clear -- I'm doing 5x8 double C&P. I have no idea how the including the cleans changes things, but that's what I'm doing right now.
I don't use 8's for building strength, and with the press, with a goal of adding weight, I would press single side because I , myself, can hold more tension in my body holding one bell.
Eric Wilson
Level 6 Valued Member
Some minor alterations. (I'm doing 5x8, not 5x10, because I can't make it with the press. I can't get to 50 chin ups no matter how they are sliced.)
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Eric Wilson
Level 6 Valued Member
Yes, clean before every press. I'm curiuos about when that is beneficial.
Yeah, 16s are the issue in that I can't realistically work with them yet.
A lot of work for 47 and also being fairly new to this type of training. You can work with a 16, just not Prometheus style.Yes, clean before every press. I'm curiuos about when that is beneficial.
Yeah, 16s are the issue in that I can't realistically work with them yet.
Context on the LC CJ's, they are awesome. Most students that fail the SFG II cert fail the strength test, 1 cln and press,, 1 side, weight depends on M/F and weight and age. Let's say you fail, I think you get 6 months to get squared away, to press what you need to press. I could be smokin crack, but my guess, No One programs 5x8 LC Dbl CJ's to pass this test. Some muscle on your shoulders, you bet, but not for pressing a heavier bell.
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james_1127
Level 6 Valued Member
Pavel addressed this issue with a bonus section of ETK where he said to the "long" push press, and eccentrics with the weight you're struggling with...
As for your weight I suggest drinking chocolate milk by the gallons... you go through 3 or 4 gallons a week you will be at 135lbs in no time... most ppl try and bulk eating clean foods, in my experience that's a pain staking process!
watchnerd
Level 8 Valued Member
Is that the entirety of what you're doing, or are you also following one of the Strongfirst programs?
I'm confused at this point, as I thought you were also doing ROP or something.
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Eric Wilson
Level 6 Valued Member
Sorry for all of the confusion -- this post has drifted all over the place.
I've done S&S up to a point (short of Simple) and decided I needed more volume on pressing, and choose that program, thought I'd benefit from the double front squats also.
I chose not to do ROP at this time, because 12kg seemed too light, and 16kg too heavy. Maybe that was the wrong answer, but I've certainly gained strength this month.
watchnerd
Level 8 Valued Member
As a 50 year old myself, I don't think it'd recommend dirty bulking to a 47 year old.
Plain milk is fine.
My dairy protein of choice is goat milk kefir.
watchnerd
Level 8 Valued Member
Can I ask a question?
If the underlying "root cause", so to speak, is the need for hypertrophy (which is a body wide change), why focus so much on pressing KBs?
Pressing is a mediocre driver of full body hypertrophy compared to other options -- the progress is slow (even for above-average responders) and the shoulder muscles aren't very big. And I say this as someone who presses 3x a week using both KBs and BBs.
I'm not saying you shouldn't press, but if you're trying to put on mass, I wouldn't make it the cornerstone criteria.
I'd definitely be adding in some chest work (push ups and dips to start), more back work (horizontal rows), and a lot more challenging squat and deadlift work than a single loaded kettlebell provides, if you really want to add mass.
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offwidth
Level 10 Valued Member
I’ll say...
But no worries Eric... these threads often take a life of their own...It’s all good stuff.
By the way... where did the 50 chin-ups come into play?
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