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nick_j

First Post
A little about me:
Age: 36
Weight: 172
Training History: 2 years, Strong Lifts 5x5, Wendler 5/3/1, Strength Guys Shifting the Curve, Greyskull LP.
Competitive History: 1st and only Powerlifting meet Jan 2019
Injury History: grade 2 pec tear Dec. 2018 (fully recovered, most recent PR was post injury), scoliosis, degenerative disc disease (lumbar), 2 years of physical therapy and chiropractic care alongside strength training and I no longer have low back pain. Good shoulder and hip mobility, always squat to depth.
Current Training Maxes:
Sq: 380
B: 205
DL: 395
Goals: Compete at state level in sub-master/masters. Maintain <20% body fat, stay under 181 weight class.
 

nick_j

First Post
Thanks! I did a search of the forum for “Faleev” and didn’t see any results. Sorry if it was a redundant post.
 

Philippe Geoffrion

Level 6 Valued Member
I've always liked the set-up of this program and ran it sometime ago. The key is patience with this one, meaning it's important to not "push too hard", as in make crummy reps. it's better to keep some in reserve. The trick is to pick to the proper starting weights. A good cycle will have you hitting 5 x 5 with your current 5 RM in a few months or so. I've also torn my pec, so I feel your pain. Keeping your technique in check and using the correct poundage should not cause your shoulder injuries, i.e. chest up and shoulders down and towards glutes in bench. The deadlift is affine upper back exercise when executed correctly. It would not harm you to do rehab movements if you feel necessary as well, i.e. face pulls, pull aparts, light band work, etc. Give it a try!

Here's an article with more in depth into this classic rep scheme.

StrongFirst and the 5x5 Method | StrongFirst
 

Simply strong

Level 4 Valued Member
I feel like I would still want to include some swings and get ups. Or does that completly defeat the point of the program?
 

Simply strong

Level 4 Valued Member
Would this program work with the OHP instead of bench?

“To press a lot you must press a lot” is this enough?
 

Steve Freides

Staff
Senior Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
I feel like I would still want to include some swings and get ups. Or does that completly defeat the point of the program?
IMHO, swings = yes, but either in small quantity before lifting, following some S&S/A+A type of guidelines, or after lifting. Getups? Keep the weight light and focus on mobility, then yes. If heavy, I'd say no.

-S-
 

Snake River Jim

Level 1 Valued Member
IMHO, swings = yes, but either in small quantity before lifting, following some S&S/A+A type of guidelines, or after lifting. Getups? Keep the weight light and focus on mobility, then yes. If heavy, I'd say no.

-S-
Thank you for the reply. I was wondering the same. Basically adding 10x10 swings after the heavy squat day. I also considered adding after the lite squat day but I would think that might have a negative recovery impact. Thoughts?
 

Steve Freides

Staff
Senior Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
@Snake River Jim, I don't think there's a pat answer to questions like these, but here's some history that may provide some ideas about how to think about this:

In some of our earlier programs, it was strength training followed by swings - strength first, cardio second. But in the overall big picture, it's strength second, cardio third, and the reason is that quick lifting comes first. And, between those earlier programs and S&S, the swing went from being the post-strength cardio to being the focus, done first and with a primary focus on explosive, quick lifting and having cardio as a "you get this for free" benefit.

So a little bit of swinging can be a warmup - that's yet another wrinkle here, using as the StrongFirst version of riding the exercise bike for 10 minutes before you lift.

So there are many ways to put these pieces together.

-S-
 

Spartan Agoge

Level 5 Valued Member
Hey guys, first time posting. I have some questions about the program Pavel outlined in this article...

Pavel: 80/20 Powerlifting and How to Add 110+ Pounds to Your Lifts

Have any of you tried it? If so...

1. Did you have any shoulder issues from the lack of upper body pulling movements?
2. Do you do 5x5 of Deadlifts too?
3. What were your results and would you recommend it?


1. Instead of light bench, I was doing overhead press 5x5.

2. Yes.

3. Good strength gains. Squat +25kg, Deadlift +30kg, Bench +15kg, OHP +10kg. In 4 months, while being intermediate. Good recovery. Less time in the gym. I totally recommend it if you are beginner or intermediate. Better than Stronglifts, Starting Strength, and even Texas Method in my opinion.
 

Starlord

Level 5 Valued Member
@Snake River Jim, I don't think there's a pat answer to questions like these, but here's some history that may provide some ideas about how to think about this:

In some of our earlier programs, it was strength training followed by swings - strength first, cardio second. But in the overall big picture, it's strength second, cardio third, and the reason is that quick lifting comes first. And, between those earlier programs and S&S, the swing went from being the post-strength cardio to being the focus, done first and with a primary focus on explosive, quick lifting and having cardio as a "you get this for free" benefit.

So a little bit of swinging can be a warmup - that's yet another wrinkle here, using as the StrongFirst version of riding the exercise bike for 10 minutes before you lift.

So there are many ways to put these pieces together.

-S-

I'd like to add that adding swings before or after squats and deadlifts can be beneficial for those that struggle to aggressively use their glutes. Something you would be surprised how many people have this problem.

With a swing you are forced to feel your glutes being used. That aggressive snap of the glutes needed to launch that kettlebell up transfers very well to a good squat and deadlift. You will be surprised how much extra weight you can put on the bar by just having that technical que click in your head.

It instantly increases strength in the squat and deadlift. Just like scapular depression does for the pull up.
 

Steve Freides

Staff
Senior Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
I recently came across this, which I'd forgotten about completely:


Have any of you tried it? If so...

I have been running 5 x 5 for my SQ and my BP for a long time now.

1. Did you have any shoulder issues from the lack of upper body pulling movements?

Balance in lifting is overrated. E.g., I've done nothing but deadlift for decently long periods of time and no harm came of it. Faleev, as quoted by Pavel in the Tim Ferriss piece, gives his answers about doing anything other than the 3 powerlifts. I enjoy doing a few pullups so I do them as variety exercise, but with much less volume and no structure to how I train them, so I can't claim to have zero upper body pulling movements.

But - a big "but" - I am actively pulling the bar down (and apart), and I am, that way, getting plenty of pulling in my bench press training.

2. Do you do 5x5 of Deadlifts too?

See the Tim Ferriss piece again. He recommends it, but without the additional light day he gives to SQ and BP. I am not using 5 x 5 for my deadlifts because I've been at a 2.5 x bodyweight 1RM deadlift for several years and am taking a different approach. (Most of my DL volume is specialized variety. On my heavy DL day, I pull exactly 3 singles. And I do light DLs on other days. Definitely not 5 x 5, definitely working out well for me as I'm pulling close to my old PRs in training.)

3. What were your results and would you recommend it?

I will have a competition result after a meet on April 17, 2021. But I am already very pleased with how it's going. I did a meet last November, when I'd been bench pressing for a few months and squatting for a few weeks. My guesstimated 1RM in the BP will be up about 25 lbs from the previous meet, and running 5 x 5 in my SQ with a weight that's 20 lbs heavier than my November 1RM. I am very happy with how it's going.

-S-
 

marcelotine

Level 4 Valued Member
I did this program for a few months and loved it. It was incredibly time effecient, and the results were really good. It was my first time running a program for both strength and hypertrophy and I overdid it on the eating (gained almost 12-15 lbs) in less than a month - yikes.

And yes, deadlift is 5x5 as well. I loved it. (Probably because I'm a beginner and those were the heaviest).

I see no reason why you couldn't switch out the BP with the OP if you wanted to.
 
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