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Kettlebell Is Q&D or KBSF / A+A harder at a given weight?

Jerreltax

Level 2 Valued Member
Hi all,

I have both the Quick & Dead and the Kettlebell Strong First and I intend to do both back to back for 12 weeks each.
I am wondering, if I had only one pair of 24 kg kettlebells, which program should I start with to get the most out of both programs? (like in milking / owning the bell before moving a size up)
Surely, if I do the 'harder' program of these 2 programs first and follow it with the 'easier' program, there will be less benefits / adaptations from doing the second program with the same size kettlebell.
(I do lean towards sets of higher [10] reps for both Q&D and A+A / KBSF for their hypertrophic benefits, which is a side goal besides GPP)

So, would you say is Q&D or KBSF/ A+A harder done with the same size kettlebell (at higher reps)?

Any advice is appreciated, thank you.
 
I would say - that this order is more amenable.

1. KBSF
2. Q&D

there are going to be certain days in the progression that are harder than the other cycle.

For GPP - any order, will keep you headed in the right direction.

If you have any performance or competition - that's a question I wouldn't dain to answer.
 
Pete L said:
I've also done the KBSF swing protocol with double 24s.
So perhaps;
1) A+A single 24 SW
2) A+A C&J Plan A single 24
3) Q&D
4) A+A double 24 SW
5) A+A C&J Plan B double 24
6) Q&D (with more power)
Click to expand...
This would be how I would do it, I wasn't sure if the OP wanted to include swings.... the A+A protocol from the newsletter also spoke about using double bells
 
Shawn Reed said:
A Q&D Sprint pretest or the KBSF baseline test would be very beneficial to determine which plan to follow first and which to complete next. Also, what is your primary goal? Hypertrophy? GPP?
Click to expand...
I can pass the tests for both programs with 24 kg kettlebell. And I feel my breathing is taxed more than my strength.
GPP is by far the main goal, hypertrophy is a secondary goal.
 
Adachi said:
I would say - that this order is more amenable.

1. KBSF
2. Q&D

there are going to be certain days in the progression that are harder than the other cycle.

For GPP - any order, will keep you headed in the right direction.

If you have any performance or competition - that's a question I wouldn't dain to answer.
Click to expand...

Pete L said:
I've also done the KBSF swing protocol with double 24s.
So perhaps;
1) A+A single 24 SW
2) A+A C&J Plan A single 24
3) Q&D
4) A+A double 24 SW
5) A+A C&J Plan B double 24
6) Q&D (with more power)
Click to expand...

james_1127 said:
This would be how I would do it, I wasn't sure if the OP wanted to include swings.... the A+A protocol from the newsletter also spoke about using double bells
Click to expand...

Thanks for your responses everyone.

There seems to be a consensus on doing KBSF before Q&D, which is sort of what I expected after reading a lot on this forum.

This leads me to the following question: would doing both the swing and c+j protocols and (nearly) achieving the goals set in KBSF, not make Q&D (even considering the overspeed reps) straight after with same size kettlebell too easy to gain much benefit from it?

If not, why not? Help me understand.

Edit: spelling
 
Last edited:
Jerreltax said:
Thanks for you responses everyone.

There seems to be a consensus on doing KBSF before Q&D, which is sort of what I expected after reading a lot on this forum.

This leads me to the following question: would doing both the swing and c+j protocols and (nearly) achieving the goals set in KBSF, not make Q&D (even considering the overspeed reps) straight after with same size kettlebell too easy to gain much benefit from it?

If not, why not? Help me understand.
Click to expand...
no b/c Q&D you're focusing on max power output and probably not going to be able to do the same weight. I am on my 4th week of Q&D after 8 weeks of KBSF I was doing 2 days a week of C&J's and 2 days a week of swings

My swing weight for KBSF was mixing the 40kg &44kg on swings, currently on Q&D I'm using a 28kg and the 4th & 5th circuit in Q&D still are brutal for me especially on the 10 rep days... yesterday I did 5 circuits (033) mixing 10/2 & 5/4 with the 28kg 1H swing... the last series of swings I had to switch to 2H b/c I felt my power going
 
Jerreltax said:
I can pass the tests for both programs with 24 kg kettlebell. And I feel my breathing is taxed more than my strength.
GPP is by far the main goal, hypertrophy is a secondary goal.
Click to expand...
What is your single or double 24kg swing total in the :30? Your BW push up in :30? Your 24kg snatch in :30 each hand per the book? Same for testing your single or double C&J per the KBSF program? These numbers will help drive the program as it is your current baseline. Then, add in your goals. To be honest, make these weights light and move fast by becoming stronger and more explosive. Then, your breathing won't be a problem. So, pick one program and stay on it for 12 weeks. I'd suggest the KBSF swing and get up program followed by the single and then double C&J programs. Build the base here for 12 weeks and then switch to Q&D for 6-12 weeks. Rinse and repeat. A year from now, you will not recognize yourself or your current state of S&C in May 2023. Do you have the strength to do that? I hope you do.
 
james_1127 said:
no b/c Q&D you're focusing on max power output and probably not going to be able to do the same weight. I am on my 4th week of Q&D after 8 weeks of KBSF I was doing 2 days a week of C&J's and 2 days a week of swings

My swing weight for KBSF was mixing the 40kg &44kg on swings, currently on Q&D I'm using a 28kg and the 4th & 5th circuit in Q&D still are brutal for me especially on the 10 rep days... yesterday I did 5 circuits (033) mixing 10/2 & 5/4 with the 28kg 1H swing... the last series of swings I had to switch to 2H b/c I felt my power going
Click to expand...
How are you mixing the 40 and 44 kg please?
I've received a 44 kg bell this week, moving up from a 36 kg.
First session I did 20 sets 2H SW EMOM no problem.
Second session I switched to 1H and got 8 sets. I felt my form was slipping and in no rush to progress. First reps are the hardest.
Not sure if I should progress 1H set quantity and match the 2H volume wise, or stick with higher volume on 2H and let the 1H progress independently.
I'm also running Victorious I and 1TRM EV PS squat programme. Hence just two sessions per week.
 
I first started by doing a 5 set rotation of
1H swing R @40kg
1H swing L @40kg
1H swing R @44kg
1H swing L @44kg
2H swing @44kg

Just repeat that... Every other week or so I would strive to add more with the 44
 
james_1127 said:
I first started by doing a 5 set rotation of
1H swing R @40kg
1H swing L @40kg
1H swing R @44kg
1H swing L @44kg
2H swing @44kg

Just repeat that... Every other week or so I would strive to add more with the 44
Click to expand...
So kind of a castleated step loading.
Where S&S has constant volume and one increase step and, initially, one decrease step. This has constant volume and multiple steps, including bell mass and hand variations.
Nice.
 
Pete L said:
So kind of a castleated step loading.
Where S&S has constant volume and one increase step and, initially, one decrease step. This has constant volume and multiple steps, including bell mass and hand variations.
Nice.
Click to expand...
Yeah I just over the week try and add 2-4 sets of the heavier weight... So say I got 20 min (4 total series done) and say 8 sets were with the heavier weight, the following week I might try and push that set number to 10 (maybe 12 on a good day) and naturally let it fluctuate like that
 
james_1127 said:
Yeah I just over the week try and add 2-4 sets of the heavier weight... So say I got 20 min (4 total series done) and say 8 sets were with the heavier weight, the following week I might try and push that set number to 10 (maybe 12 on a good day) and naturally let it fluctuate like that
Click to expand...
Sounds good.
I'm gonna stick with single bell sessions and see if I can make some progress that way.
If I stall I'll give your approach a try.
 
Build a base with KBSF (be)for(e) Q&D with the same size kettlebell is clearly the message, thank you.

(This probably because both programs target different mechanisms, and if anything, I might need go a size down when I switch to Q&D)
 
Pete L said:
I've also done the KBSF swing protocol with double 24s.
So perhaps;
1) A+A single 24 SW
2) A+A C&J Plan A single 24
3) Q&D
4) A+A double 24 SW
5) A+A C&J Plan B double 24
6) Q&D (with more power)
Click to expand...
Your suggestion of doing KBSF Swing with doubles is very smart / interesting, I have taken a note of this. :)
 
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