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Bodyweight Questioning about HSPU & Press Carryover

getthe1620

getthe1620

Level 5 Valued Member
Certified Instructor
Hi. I have a question :)

I'm curious about how much the strength gained from OAP and HSPU would be useful in the press without specifically training for the KB MP.

After recently obtaining my SFB certification, I have been continuing to practice OAP and wall-supported HSPU.

When I became capable of performing the OAP, I found that I could press 32kg without separate press training.

My previous press personal record (PR) was 1-2 reps with a 24kg kettlebell.

I'm curious whether I can apply even heavier weights.

Is there anyone with experience who can provide some insights?

I would appreciate it if someone could share their insights.
 
Hello, here is this old Strongfirst article:

www.strongfirst.com

How to Double Your Kettlebell Press in 6 Weeks Without Touching a Bell | StrongFirst

I know how you can double your kettlebell press without ever touching a kettlebell. It's a simple program. Here's how I did it and why you should join me.
www.strongfirst.com

From my own experience, I didn't see much carryover...

9 HSPU -> 4x20kg double press.

3x24kg double press -> 3HSPU at roughly the same bodyweight :-D

But my strength has always been very lift specific, blame my nervous system :)
 
I would say it depends on a number of factors. First of all, are we talking handstand push-ups (full range, on paralettes) or headstand push-ups (hands level with the crown of the head)? In the latter case, you are "only" moving bodyweight through a partial range of motion, which may not be enough to affect the military press significantly past a certain level, since you would need to devise ways of overloading the partial rep more to produce an effect. Second, hand position can be crucial - width and angle of placement can cause specific improvements with very limited carry-over, especially if they are never changed. And finally, I would argue it depends on where a person's strengths and weaknesses lie: if for example my shoulders and triceps are the limiting factors, I can fix those problems with HSPU. If on the other hand my problem in the OHP is torso stability and my movement pattern isn't great, then I wouldn't expect any miracles from HSPU (especially if they are done against a wall; freestanding HSPU can lead to improved stabilization and coordination, but are essentially a new movement pattern.
 
Kevin Gupta said:
Hello, here is this old Strongfirst article:

www.strongfirst.com

How to Double Your Kettlebell Press in 6 Weeks Without Touching a Bell | StrongFirst

I know how you can double your kettlebell press without ever touching a kettlebell. It's a simple program. Here's how I did it and why you should join me.
www.strongfirst.com

From my own experience, I didn't see much carryover...

9 HSPU -> 4x20kg double press.

3x24kg double press -> 3HSPU at roughly the same bodyweight :-D

But my strength has always been very lift specific, blame my nervous system :)
Click to expand...
Hi I appreciate you sharing your Special experiences and articles with me. Thank You!
 
Period said:
I would say it depends on a number of factors. First of all, are we talking handstand push-ups (full range, on paralettes) or headstand push-ups (hands level with the crown of the head)? In the latter case, you are "only" moving bodyweight through a partial range of motion, which may not be enough to affect the military press significantly past a certain level, since you would need to devise ways of overloading the partial rep more to produce an effect. Second, hand position can be crucial - width and angle of placement can cause specific improvements with very limited carry-over, especially if they are never changed. And finally, I would argue it depends on where a person's strengths and weaknesses lie: if for example my shoulders and triceps are the limiting factors, I can fix those problems with HSPU. If on the other hand my problem in the OHP is torso stability and my movement pattern isn't great, then I wouldn't expect any miracles from HSPU (especially if they are done against a wall; freestanding HSPU can lead to improved stabilization and coordination, but are essentially a new movement pattern.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the very precise and greatly helpful advice.

After considering everything, it seems like I need Full ROM Weighted HSPU.

Training with heavy kettlebell Cheat cleans or loaded cleans separately could be beneficial for improving core stability.
 
getthe1620 said:
Thank you for the very precise and greatly helpful advice.

After considering everything, it seems like I need Full ROM Weighted HSPU.

Training with heavy kettlebell Cheat cleans or loaded cleans separately could be beneficial for improving core stability.
Click to expand...
Full ROM weighted? Are you already pressing more than bodyweight overhead?
Also, are we talking one arm press or double press? One arm press has a significantly different movement pattern.
 
OAP and HSPUs definitely have KB press carryover

I was on vacation and had no access to kettlebells. Did OAP GTG (focused on staying tight and fighting the sticking point)

When I got home I easily pressed my SFGII press bell

Worked up to wall HSPU. when I could do 7-8 touch and go HSPU as well as 2-3 from a mild deficit, I pressed my SFGII bell for 2 reps
 
This guy eats, sleeps and breaths handstand pushups, and he can press prettty heavy:

www.instagram.com

‎Feras alahmad-فراس الاحمد‎ on Instagram: "90 kg shoulder press . . . . #calisthenics #sport #workout #qatar #qatarfitness #fitness #motivation"

633 likes, 14 comments - iiworkout on February 5, 2023: "90 kg shoulder press . . . . #calisthenics #sport #workout #qatar #qatarfitness #fitness..."
www.instagram.com www.instagram.com

Some of his feats combine feelings of "why would you do that?" (somehow he doesn't seem to have broken his nose (yet), with feelings of "I can hardly believe you can do that."
www.instagram.com

‎Feras alahmad-فراس الاحمد‎ on Instagram: "10/8 . . . #calisthenics #handstand #handstandpushups #movement #reels #streetworkout #workout #qatarfitness"

1,082 likes, 35 comments - iiworkout on May 29, 2022: "10/8 . . . #calisthenics #handstand #handstandpushups #movement #reels #streetworkout #workout #q..."
www.instagram.com www.instagram.com
 
Period said:
Full ROM weighted? Are you already pressing more than bodyweight overhead?
Also, are we talking one arm press or double press? One arm press has a significantly different movement pattern.
Click to expand...
No. I'm not yet.

I must be stronger than now ROFL

I'm still at the floor level for now, but I believe I'll eventually reach it.

And I'm talking about One arm press : )

I'm curious about your opinion.
 
Mark Limbaga said:
OAP and HSPUs definitely have KB press carryover

I was on vacation and had no access to kettlebells. Did OAP GTG (focused on staying tight and fighting the sticking point)

When I got home I easily pressed my SFGII press bell

Worked up to wall HSPU. when I could do 7-8 touch and go HSPU as well as 2-3 from a mild deficit, I pressed my SFGII bell for 2 reps
Click to expand...
Thank you for sharing your valuable experiences and insights!

Your opinion is highly trusted (y)

I need the advices of experienced individuals like you to gain confidence in my training :D
 
bluejeff said:
This guy eats, sleeps and breaths handstand pushups, and he can press prettty heavy:

www.instagram.com

‎Feras alahmad-فراس الاحمد‎ on Instagram: "90 kg shoulder press . . . . #calisthenics #sport #workout #qatar #qatarfitness #fitness #motivation"

633 likes, 14 comments - iiworkout on February 5, 2023: "90 kg shoulder press . . . . #calisthenics #sport #workout #qatar #qatarfitness #fitness..."
www.instagram.com www.instagram.com

Some of his feats combine feelings of "why would you do that?" (somehow he doesn't seem to have broken his nose (yet), with feelings of "I can hardly believe you can do that."
www.instagram.com

‎Feras alahmad-فراس الاحمد‎ on Instagram: "10/8 . . . #calisthenics #handstand #handstandpushups #movement #reels #streetworkout #workout #qatarfitness"

1,082 likes, 35 comments - iiworkout on May 29, 2022: "10/8 . . . #calisthenics #handstand #handstandpushups #movement #reels #streetworkout #workout #q..."
www.instagram.com www.instagram.com
Click to expand...
OMG this guy's calisthenic level is so high ROFL

His Barbell MP Strength is impressive.

Thank you for Sharing :)
 
getthe1620 said:
No. I'm not yet.

I must be stronger than now ROFL

I'm still at the floor level for now, but I believe I'll eventually reach it.

And I'm talking about One arm press : )

I'm curious about your opinion.
Click to expand...
In that case, there is no need to think about adding weight now, adding depth should be enough. You can use paralettes, blocks or rings (feet wrapped around the straps first ;) Another possible option would be to start training one arm pike push-ups, and see how far you can go up the progressions with one arm only.
Personally, I do feel that the HSPU has a slightly different grove than the OA MP, and is somewhat closer to the the 2A MP. Therefore, the same metric applies - OA MP tends to be more than half of the 2A MP, at least nowadays where nobody really trains 2A MP anymore.
Therefore, while I feel that HSPU can help improving OHP, I personally think specific drills (for example see Kenneth Jay, Perfecting the Press) would likely get you there faster. But then again, there's always a lot of variables.
 
Hello,

HSPU (regardless the ROM) requires less core work than regular OVH press. Indeed, you are not loading the spine. Core wise, one only needs the bare minimum to maintain a straight postion actually. IMHO, to really notice a transfer, core work is something to be added. Proper GHD Sit ups do a great deal at this (as mentioned by A. Salkin in one of his video).

Plus, a carryover usually means that the "raw" strength is available. Nonetheless, that does not mean that fine motor skills (technique for proper move) is here. One has to refine the technique using the "raw" strength. That's the SAID principle

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
Period said:
In that case, there is no need to think about adding weight now, adding depth should be enough. You can use paralettes, blocks or rings (feet wrapped around the straps first ;) Another possible option would be to start training one arm pike push-ups, and see how far you can go up the progressions with one arm only.
Personally, I do feel that the HSPU has a slightly different grove than the OA MP, and is somewhat closer to the the 2A MP. Therefore, the same metric applies - OA MP tends to be more than half of the 2A MP, at least nowadays where nobody really trains 2A MP anymore.
Therefore, while I feel that HSPU can help improving OHP, I personally think specific drills (for example see Kenneth Jay, Perfecting the Press) would likely get you there faster. But then again, there's always a lot of variables.
Click to expand...
Very Thanks to your valuable advice!

Even one-arm pike push-ups are an idea I've never even considered!

I'll must try it :D

I've never thought about the difference between one-arm and two-arm before.

I'll personally keep experimenting and also look into the recommendations you've provided.

Thank you.
 
Last edited:
pet' said:
Hello,

HSPU (regardless the ROM) requires less core work than regular OVH press. Indeed, you are not loading the spine. Core wise, one only needs the bare minimum to maintain a straight postion actually. IMHO, to really notice a transfer, core work is something to be added. Proper GHD Sit ups do a great deal at this (as mentioned by A. Salkin in one of his video).

Plus, a carryover usually means that the "raw" strength is available. Nonetheless, that does not mean that fine motor skills (technique for proper move) is here. One has to refine the technique using the "raw" strength. That's the SAID principle

Kind regards,

Pet'
Click to expand...
Hi :)

Thank you for your excellent advice. (y)

I personally want to experiment and see how far my SFB skills can transfer

I'll update with the results later

Thanks
 
getthe1620 said:
Very Thanks to your valuable advice!

Even one-arm pike push-ups are an idea I've never even considered!

I'll must try it :D

I've never thought about the difference between one-arm and two-arm before.

I'll personally keep experimenting and also look into the recommendations you've provided.

Thank you.
Click to expand...
I should add that in my opinion, in general no exercise will lead to a better improvement in the target exercise than diligent practice of the exercise itself, unless you have imbalances which can be better addressed with another exercise, have hit a plateau, or you cannot (respectively will not) train the target exercise as much as you could.
 
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