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Kettlebell Slightly stalled subsequent "Simple", slide toward "Solid" or switch systems?

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sizzlefuzz

Level 6 Valued Member
Hey guys,

First off, yes, I was trying to have everything in the title start with 's'.

Since March, I have made great progress, learned a lot, and surprised myself with the ability to get to the point where I am regularly swinging 32kgs with one arm as well as training the get up with 36 & 40kgs. I have attempted some swings (1H) with 36kg, although it is a bit of a struggle (FWIW it's a 12.5% increase in weight) and to maintain good form I need to work in the 3-5 rep range.

As I approach BJJ comps this Saturday, and next, I am at something of a training crossroads. I have a few different goals in mind, and a few different ideas in mind as to achieve them (depending on which goal I choose to pursue first).

Goals:
"Solid"
SFG I
SFB

The first thing I am considering doing is this program: From “Simple” to Serious Endurance & take a 6-week jaunt down the road to "Serious Endurance". I'm intrigued by the idea of A+A training and think that is the perfect primer. Once I complete that, I would like to take on one of the following plans.

Option 1:

I'm considering using the outline that Pavel Macek came up with in terms of S&S while alternating the use of the push press with the TGU, though I would probably ease that in by only doing the push press option once a week at first (S&C Training for MMA With Simple & Sinister). I would also work on some of the SFB skills as a secondary focus, only once a week to keep them in mind. I did ask about this structure in a previous thread and he told me to focus on "normal" S&S for BJJ as opposed to the difference in striking with MMA, I am still intrigued by this option as long as I don't burn out with the volume. Since it'll be about 5-6 months until I'm competing next, I'm not too worried if I have to scrub the mission on this one.

Option 2:

Rite of Passage-- I think this plan would be a nice one to take a run at over the course of 10-12 weeks and then revisiting the "vanilla" S&S and seeing what WTH effects I can gain/observe. I would also keep the SFB skills in the background as a secondary goal as with option 1. This would be my first foray into training for the snatch test, as I think that is my weak spot in pursuing the SFG. Also, I like the idea of a test in the 5 minute range with high output, as most jiu jitsu matches last between 6-10 minutes, depending on the tournament rules.

Option 3:

In this case, I would make SFB skills my primary goal, and train heavy get ups, as well as heavy 1H swings 1-2 times a week with lower rep sets.

Final thoughts:

I had some other ideas, but they were either too complicated or didn't address my goals in the way that I think I want. I'm open to other suggestions, obviously and would value any feedback you may have.
 

Neuro-Bob

Level 9 Valued Member
I like the focus on competitions, then serious endurance, then.....this is where I may differ.

It sounds like you’re heading to the “off season” if you won’t conpete for six months. At the beginning it, to me it seems general recovery is good. Then maybe emphasize your strength base.

You’ve been hitting handbalancing a lot recently - wouldn’t SFB hit that most completely?

Of course I’m partial to Kettlebells....I imagine any of the three options would work for what it seems you are looking for.
 

DavThew

Level 6 Valued Member
I'd go with what seems like the most fun in your off season. As @Neuro-Bob said if you like bodyweight stuff hit that for a bit. My personal suggestion with BW stuff would be to do GTG of NW drills through the week, and hit A+A snatches 3 times a week. Alternate 2 week blocks of OAPU with HSPUs. Do some TGUs occasionally. The tension skills will carry over well to whatever you do next.
Good luck in deciding - I think choosing what to do next is often the toughest part of a program.
 

Leesburgking

Level 7 Valued Member
My rambling 2cents-
If you are coming up on an off season for your bjj tournaments and progress has slowed on regular S&S perhaps i would recommend taking 2 or 3 weeks and doing some bodyweight and mobility goodies and get to where you feel fantastic and recovered. Then think about Strength->Hypertrophy for a couple months. I think A+A looks like great method, plus you could also substitute some sets of snatches in there with the swings.
 

sizzlefuzz

Level 6 Valued Member
Accidentally posted my training log post here. My bad. My brain is fried.
 
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sizzlefuzz

Level 6 Valued Member
My rambling 2cents-
If you are coming up on an off season for your bjj tournaments and progress has slowed on regular S&S perhaps i would recommend taking 2 or 3 weeks and doing some bodyweight and mobility goodies and get to where you feel fantastic and recovered. Then think about Strength->Hypertrophy for a couple months. I think A+A looks like great method, plus you could also substitute some sets of snatches in there with the swings.

Thank you for the feedback, I think I'm going to save "Serious Endurance" for a little while, as that volume of swings under those time constraints might break me down a bit. I think I'm going to focus on the SFB skills as well as the secondary focus on the heavy 1H swings & get ups.
 

Strong Rick

Level 9 Valued Member
Thank you for the feedback, I think I'm going to save "Serious Endurance" for a little while, as that volume of swings under those time constraints might break me down a bit. I think I'm going to focus on the SFB skills as well as the secondary focus on the heavy 1H swings & get ups.
Sorry for the late response but this is what I would choose for these reasons...
Following your journal for some time you do a lot of BJJ training and that appears to be the “focus” keep that your main focuse but compliment that with heavy swings and get-ups + SFB bodyweight drills. In my head those just seems like a good compliment to your other training. If you don’t want to only focus on heavy swings maybe switch out he swings for snatches but in stead of thraing them for the SSST train them along the lines of S+S for strength, in the form of A+A template. So I guess what I’m saying is maybe do a 2 week block of heavy swings and TGU and switch up to A+A snatch( say for 80-120 reps) with TGU.... but lighten the load on the snatches to a weight that you can do comfortable but not easy so I still progresses your strength.

Make sense?

You get all the Conditoning you need with the BJJ training so to me it just seems logical to train strength to compliment that conditioning training. So in reality it would not that much of change from what you are doing currently but if you do “from simple to serious endurance” it just seems- to me- you would be double training the conditioning part and dropping of the strength aspect.

You can keep Your strength work short and focused so you don’t fry yourself out while layering in bodyweight moves and still have fuel left in the tank for your BJJ training...

Hope that helps and what you are looking for. Good luck!
 

sizzlefuzz

Level 6 Valued Member
You get all the Conditoning you need with the BJJ training so to me it just seems logical to train strength to compliment that conditioning training. So in reality it would not that much of change from what you are doing currently but if you do “from simple to serious endurance” it just seems- to me- you would be double training the conditioning part and dropping of the strength aspect.

Rick, thank you for the thoughtful post, your point about not doubling up the conditioning aspect is a very good one. Not that I think the Serious Endurance would be a waste of time, but it might not be the most effective use of 5 weeks of training.
 

Kozushi

Level 7 Valued Member
I'm a judo guy in a similar situation so we can commiserate. BJJ is almost exactly the ground fighting half of judo, so techniques wise we can commiserate too.

Here is what I think.

1. Why in a hurry to "progress" always? Why not stick with S&S at 32kg??? You've stuck with BJJ all these years without switching to fencing or baseball (or judo, hahaha), so why drop S&S or try to go past Simple in it? Why not just stay at Simple and enjoy being terrifically strong and effective at BJJ because of it? Maybe eventually slide up to the 36kg bell when some parts get too easy, but no hurry!

2. I agree with another post above that you are getting all your conditioning out of BJJ (as I do out of judo), and this includes both the cardio and the movement aspects of exercise, leaving only raw strength as the thing BJJ (and judo) do NOT grant through training (and don't kid yourself that they do because they do not, they absolutely DO NOT!) So, go for simple heavy lifts. In my case I am doing 2 sets of 5 deadlifts a day with a 300lbs barbell, and several sets of 6 presses with the 24kg kettlebell and occasionally sets of 3 reps with the 32kg, hoping to move up completely to the 32 eventually. I maintain S&S with the 32 or the 40kg bell depending on how adventurous I feel the day of, by doing it a few times a week on non-judo days.

But honestly, if you are not bored with S&S and it is not too difficult for you to fit into your schedule, I highly recommend sticking with Simple indefinitely, and poking around with other things more for fun than for anything.

Oh yes, you can start adding things INTO your Simple S&S training. For instance, do a press at certain pausing points in your TGUs. It's in the book! This gives you pressing power on top of multi directional TGU endurance strength! Get your heavier kettlebell (40kg?) and start doing some high volume 2h swings. Start adding in some chinups (I hate pullups because my bar is too short for them.) You're still doing haloes and goblet squats? They're good stuff too for our kind of sport.
 
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sizzlefuzz

Level 6 Valued Member
@Kozushi I think you raise some good points. I think I can maintain "Simple" while working on SFB skills as well mixing in the heavier get ups and 1H swings. When you say high volume 2H swings, are you referring to beyond sets of 10, or just a 10x10 of 2 handers with a heavier weight to switch things up?
 

Kozushi

Level 7 Valued Member
@Kozushi I think you raise some good points. I think I can maintain "Simple" while working on SFB skills as well mixing in the heavier get ups and 1H swings. When you say high volume 2H swings, are you referring to beyond sets of 10, or just a 10x10 of 2 handers with a heavier weight to switch things up?
I mean both - either sets of say 15 at a time, or going up to 100 total, or both concepts mixed.

Yes, of course the 1h swings are better and need to be the core of your training - you know this already regarding the newfound strength you got for sweeps etc in BJJ - but the heavier 2h swings are more exhausting and challenge your back chain harder - it isn't an "anti-twist" thing anymore with 2h swings but rather a "big pull" movement that you're doing. It's frankly a different exercise from 1h swings. It doesn't make it into S&S as a daily exercise, but as something else to do it's wonderful. S&S focuses on anti-twist strength and postural rigidity, and between the two of them we get super prepared for pretty much any sport and even for almost any weight lifting dream! But, I could see pairing heavy (like 40kg) 2h swings for 10X10 a day with an ROP style pressing programme, which would grant its own benefits.
 

sizzlefuzz

Level 6 Valued Member
I mean both - either sets of say 15 at a time, or going up to 100 total, or both concepts mixed.

Yes, of course the 1h swings are better and need to be the core of your training - you know this already regarding the newfound strength you got for sweeps etc in BJJ - but the heavier 2h swings are more exhausting and challenge your back chain harder - it isn't an "anti-twist" thing anymore with 2h swings but rather a "big pull" movement that you're doing. It's frankly a different exercise from 1h swings. It doesn't make it into S&S as a daily exercise, but as something else to do it's wonderful. S&S focuses on anti-twist strength and postural rigidity, and between the two of them we get super prepared for pretty much any sport and even for almost any weight lifting dream! But, I could see pairing heavy (like 40kg) 2h swings for 10X10 a day with an ROP style pressing programme, which would grant its own benefits.

Good ideas, I'm please I've got some time to play with in the next few months before I start ramping it up in March or April to compete again so I will be experimenting with those as a contributing method for sure.
 

Kozushi

Level 7 Valued Member
In my case, pairing Simple with deadlifting and pressing inspired by the PTTP programme, I'm doing VERY well in judo these days!

Smart lifting of weights is good for judo techniques as there is not only strength transfer to judo but also postural technique, poise and balance.
 
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