all posts post new thread

Kettlebell Built Strong Minimalist

John K said:
@Fabio Zonin - finished going through this. It looks great! That spreadsheet makes all that calculating from Simple Strength For Difficult Times 2 super simple. A question - is there a reason that the press is never a clean and press? I've noticed that you don't typically list that in either Simple Strengths for Difficult Times or in this.
Click to expand...
I'm sure Fabio will reply, but I will offer you my opinion:

The clean and press (and, for that matter, the clean and jerk) are movements that spread the load out across a lot of the body, while just pressing keeps the focus on the muscles used in pressing. It follows that adding a clean before each press will likely make your presses stronger but also take away from the hypertrophy focus on the pressing muscles. Clean + press/pushpress/jerk is, OTOH, well suited to a weight-class athlete looking to build strength or strength-endurance without needing to move up a weight class.

John K said:
Me thinking, thinks it's to keep more tension on the muscle longer.
Click to expand...

I believe you're thinking about this correctly.

-S-
 
Adachi said:
@jroberts1187
maybe sample the BuiltStrong Minimalist plans and see if you want more.
compare it to your PlanStrong information and see if there are any gaps you want to be filled in.
Click to expand...
That's quite a bit of money to "sample" when I've apparently already been taught most of the basic principles for much more $$$. That's why I'm asking the difference in methodology and how I haven't really seen much information on how they differ to justify even more $$$$$
 
jroberts1187 said:
That's quite a bit of money to "sample" when I've apparently already been taught most of the basic principles for much more $$$. That's why I'm asking the difference in methodology and how I haven't really seen much information on how they differ to justify even more $$$$$
Click to expand...
If you are patient and cunning you can get programs from StrongandFit for 25% of the advertised cost by doubling up on 2 coupon codes.

Another tip ..... Sometimes after you buy a program they give you 80% off anything you buy in the next ten minutes so if you do buy a program you must already know what else you might want to buy if you get lucky with a 10 minute 80% discount.

There are three programs at the moment going for $0, I "bought" one and was offered a big discount on my next buy straight away unfortunately I didn't want anything else.
 
That's quite a bit of money to "sample" when I've apparently already been taught most of the basic principles for much more $$$. That's why I'm asking the difference in methodology and how I haven't really seen much information on how they differ to justify even more $$$$$
Click to expand...

I have never done the Plan Strong or the BuiltStrong. But with the information in the various articles and threads, I would say that Plan Strong is more about getting strong: 50% of the total lifts are in ~65% weight, ~35% in the 75% weight and about ~14 in the 85% weight and about ~1% in the 90/92%. Where, I think, you will do all the different weights for every training.

For this build Strong there is no 90/92% and is more about heavy quality reps. In the podcast with Jay Ferrugia, Fabio asks him what weight he could use for a 6RM Bench. Jay responds with: I don't do benches anymore, but with a DB Chest Press around 110's per hand. Fabio then asks him how many perfect reps he could do, after a all out 6RM set, with just 2 minutes rest. Jay responds with about 3, and after those 3 I could do probably one more with 2 minutes rest again. Fabio asks how many of those 10 total reps would be perfect quality, because all of them are to failure, respons, not that many.

Now if you take the same 6RM and you will do only 3 reps the first set, 50% of you RM, take 2 minutes rest, can you do another set of 3 after this set? 'Yes'. How many would have perfect technique? 'All of them'. How many sets of these would you think you can do? 'About 5'.

So you would do 15 quality reps with a 6 RM weight (~87% of maximum weight) which will build strength, and via Chris Beardsley also 15 stimulating reps which will build muscle aswell. With the 3 different weight categories, Brad Schoefeld's re-examination of the Repetition continuum, also comes in to play: stimulating different fibers to work hard.
 
Last edited:
John K said:
Picked this up today and starting to go through it this weekend. Looking forward to getting a taste of Built Strong/Plan Strong.
Click to expand...
This is great to hear, thank you for giving it a shot!

John K said:
@Fabio Zonin - finished going through this. It looks great! That spreadsheet makes all that calculating from Simple Strength For Difficult Times 2 super simple. A question - is there a reason that the press is never a clean and press? I've noticed that you don't typically list that in either Simple Strengths for Difficult Times or in this. Me thinking, thinks it's to keep more tension on the muscle longer.
Click to expand...
Great question! Thank you for asking and allowing me the opportunity to explain the reason behind this choice. I personally love the C&P, but since both SSFDT and BtS Minimalist allow one to choose among a lift of pressing exercises, it was important that they all share the same features. Given the C&P is not only an upper body press, but it's a compound movement which also includes the hip hinge based movement of the clean, it differentiates from all the other exercises in the list. In addition to this, the TUT to which the pressing muscles are subjected to is different in the C&P, as these muscles "take some rest" during the clean portion of the exercise.

I hope this explains and thank you again for your question, Sir!
 
Tjerr said:
I just started 'Tough' today, I have 2 weeks before a 10 day holiday and after the holiday I will start over, so playing with though for the in-between time
Click to expand...
The tough version is indeed... tough! However, the first peak fo volume of the plan is on week three, so you in two weeks you will have the chance to assess how it feels and if you want to stick with tough once you are back from vacation.
 
Steve Freides said:
I'm sure Fabio will reply, but I will offer you my opinion:

The clean and press (and, for that matter, the clean and jerk) are movements that spread the load out across a lot of the body, while just pressing keeps the focus on the muscles used in pressing. It follows that adding a clean before each press will likely make your presses stronger but also take away from the hypertrophy focus on the pressing muscles. Clean + press/pushpress/jerk is, OTOH, well suited to a weight-class athlete looking to build strength or strength-endurance without needing to move up a weight class.



I believe you're thinking about this correctly.

-S-
Click to expand...
Exactly!
 
jroberts1187 said:
I've attended Plan Strong, and there is a version of Plan Strong that improves hypertrophy called PS50. Since BuiltStrong is based on PS principles and PS has a hypertrophy option with PS50, I really haven't seen anything that explains the differences enough to persuade me to attend a BuiltStrong seminar though I really love Fabio's stuff. Could someone here who has done both advise me on the differences?
Click to expand...
Thank you for appreciating my stuff, Sir! :)

Having said that PB and BtS share the same principles:
- Predominance of medium weights
- Delta 20 principle for waving the volume
- Uncoupled volume and intensity
And both allow to build strength and muscles (with PS more focused on the former and BtS more on the latter), the two systems differ on several features and training strategies:
- The number of main lifts that are trained in the same plan (up to 6 in BtS)
- The weekly schedule
- The presence and the share of the volume assigned to SV lifts and the way they are scheduled within a week
- The option of provided by BtS of adding some direct muscle work (AKA isolation exercises)
- The way the intensity is assigned to the lifts and the way different intensity zones are scheduled across the week
- Different rep counts per set and ladders per set based on RM tests
- The IS (interrupted Set) option
- The option of designing plans without knowing the exact 1RMs, but based on RM tests
This is what came up to my mind straight away, I hope it helps providing an answer that is thorough enough.
 
Tjerr said:
I have never done the Plan Strong or the BuiltStrong. But with the information in the various articles and threads, I would say that Plan Strong is more about getting strong: 50% of the total lifts are in ~65% weight, ~35% in the 75% weight and about ~14 in the 85% weight and about ~1% in the 90/92%. Where, I think, you will do all the different weights for every training.

For this build Strong there is no 90/92% and is more about heavy quality reps. In the podcast with Jay Ferrugia, Fabio asks him what weight he could use for a 6RM Bench. Jay responds with: I don't do benches anymore, but with a DB Chest Press around 110's per hand. Fabio then asks him how many perfect reps he could do, after a all out 6RM set, with just 2 minutes rest. Jay responds with about 3, and after those 3 I could do probably one more with 2 minutes rest again. Fabio asks how many of those 10 total reps would be perfect quality, because all of them are to failure, respons, not that many.

Now if you take the same 6RM and you will do only 3 reps the first set, 50% of you RM, take 2 minutes rest, can you do another set of 3 after this set? 'Yes'. How many would have perfect technique? 'All of them'. How many sets of these would you think you can do? 'About 5'.

So you would do 15 quality reps with a 6 RM weight (~87% of maximum weight) which will build strength, and via Chris Beardsley also 15 stimulating reps which will build muscle aswell. With the 3 different weight categories, Brad Schoefeld's re-examination of the Repetition continuum, also comes in to play: stimulating different fibers to work hard.
Click to expand...
WOW! Thank you for listening to the podcast with Jay Ferruggia!
Yes, this is a point I like to make. But both PS and BtS take all this into account.
In any case, thank you so much for bringing it up, Sir!
 
Fabio Zonin said:
Thank you for appreciating my stuff, Sir! :)

Having said that PB and BtS share the same principles:
- Predominance of medium weights
- Delta 20 principle for waving the volume
- Uncoupled volume and intensity
And both allow to build strength and muscles (with PS more focused on the former and BtS more on the latter), the two systems differ on several features and training strategies:
- The number of main lifts that are trained in the same plan (up to 6 in BtS)
- The weekly schedule
- The presence and the share of the volume assigned to SV lifts and the way they are scheduled within a week
- The option of provided by BtS of adding some direct muscle work (AKA isolation exercises)
- The way the intensity is assigned to the lifts and the way different intensity zones are scheduled across the week
- Different rep counts per set and ladders per set based on RM tests
- The IS (interrupted Set) option
- The option of designing plans without knowing the exact 1RMs, but based on RM tests
This is what came up to my mind straight away, I hope it helps providing an answer that is thorough enough.
Click to expand...

Thank you very much, sir. That is exactly what I was looking for.
 
Bauer said:
3 version of BTS3 are included, but there will apparently be separate BTS4 and BTS6 products.
Click to expand...
That's what I meant. Should have specified. Would also be cool if there was a way to choose 4 or even 5 day split in the Excel for the BTS4/6 programs
 
Sunday I did the last session of week 2, and I had an enormous pump and did the Swings and Get ups on monday as well. Tuesday I couldn't do anything because of the achings.

Just looked at my sheet, did 4-6-10-4-6-10 with my 11RM bell (64), and not with 15 RM (56). That explained a lot xD
 
Hey all, just purchased this program and am excited to give it a shot.

Is there any particular reason that the deadlift was not included in the list of exercises for this program? Is it simply because it doesn't stimulate hypertrophy in a similar fashion to the other included exercises?

A follow up to that question? Would it be acceptable to simply use the spreadsheet to include deadlifts as my pull exercise? I was considering choosing Floor Presses, KB front squats, and Deadlifts as my exercise selection.

Alternatively could one substitute the Trap Bar Deadlift as a squat movement for the purpose of this program? In this case my exercise cluster would likely be Floor Press, Trap Bar Dead, and pullups.
 
Not Fabio, but in my experience a (heavy) deadlift takes to long to recover from. Swings and Get Ups the next day is okay, so I'll assume that you can do a low volume deadlift session the next day, but don't go to max RM or max weight, just keep the groove (3-5 X 3-5 @ ~75%).

After 2 weeks on 'Though' no way I could do deadlifts after the DFS, in the same session, I'm fried.

Trapbar could be switched for the squat in my opinion. But see how it goes and keep thinking for yourself (L)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom