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Kettlebell Snatches sets/rep equivalent to 10x10 of swings

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damogari

Level 7 Valued Member
I am thinking about idea of mixing exercises from Simple & Sinister (Swing & TGU) and old Program Minimum (Snatch & BP) into a "park bench" program between more intensive cycles. It's from Program Minimum [Squared] but I would like to program it more like S&S.

The idea is to do these trainings every other day, 5-6 days a week:

Day A
Swings 10x10
Get Up 5x1/1

Day B
Snatch ?
Bent Press 5x1/1

Taking a rest day when needed. Once a week or two going all out (on one week Day A, on the other Day B). Progressing the weight when the bell is owned.

The question is:

What sets and reps structure for snatches would be equivalent to 10x10 swings?

I am thinking about 12-14 sets of 5. Classic 10x10 would be a little too much reps in set, on the other side 20x5 three times a week could take too long, or be too much of volume.

What do you think?

EDIT: change title to addres the issue
 
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Kettlebelephant

Level 6 Valued Member
Compared to swings snatches take roughly double the time and cover double the distance so 10x5 (sets x reps) would be a logical choice.
Whether 20x5 could be too much volume is something you need to test for yourself. I don't think it takes to long though. If the weight is not too heavy you can use EMOM and end up with only 20min. Also take into account that on your snatch days you pair them with BnPs.
10 BnPs don't take as long as long as 10 TGUs. I'd say on average the BnPs take half the time of the TGUs. You can use that saved time and add it to the snatch part of your session.
 

Anna C

Level 9 Valued Member
Team Leader Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
Sinister
I like 5 snatches EMOM for 20 minutes, using a bell one or two sizes smaller than swing bell. If swing bell is 32, then 20 or 24 for snatches.

For BnP, if using same weight as TGU, sounds good. If using lighter weight, maybe 5 x 2/2. I would also do some lunges on B days, maybe 5 x 5/5 with kettlebells held at the sides, in the rack, or overhead. Nice and slow and controlled, body upright (not leaning forward), legs at 90 degrees. And maybe SLDLs and rows, too. :) I'd do all this before the snatches. Just my thoughts...
 

piers

Level 6 Valued Member
Team Leader Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
In my opinion, if it's park bench, I think that 200 snatches are too many, I'd focus on doing 5-10 minutes using something similar to the S&S approach. 5/5 initially for 10 minutes, then working towards 10/10 for 5 mins.
 

damogari

Level 7 Valued Member
I would look at doing 5 snatches EMOM for 20 minutes.

Whether 20x5 could be too much volume is something you need to test for yourself. I don't think it takes to long though. If the weight is not too heavy you can use EMOM and end up with only 20min.

I like 5 snatches EMOM for 20 minutes, using a bell one or two sizes smaller than swing bell. If swing bell is 32, then 20 or 24 for snatches.
(...)
I would also do some lunges on B days, maybe 5 x 5/5 with kettlebells held at the sides, in the rack, or overhead. Nice and slow and controlled, body upright (not leaning forward), legs at 90 degrees.

Thank you for help! I will do 20x5 then, it looks reasonably.

In case of lunges maybe overhead lunge right after BP? It will be the same weight for BP and TGU.

Why not use time like the original program suggested?

I really respect S&S and know that it delivers, but have a real problem to stay with it longer. Additionally I prefer snatches to swings and wanna keep a little variety in program. In case of TGU and BP I feel that these movement complement themselves well.

EDIT: sorry I read it like "why not original S&S", reading too fast :) I would like to have same number of reps everyday like in S&S, not racing the clock, working in A+A style

In my opinion, if it's park bench, I think that 200 snatches are too many, I'd focus on doing 5-10 minutes using something similar to the S&S approach. 5/5 initially for 10 minutes, then working towards 10/10 for 5 mins.

Thank you @piers :) This 20x5 I was thinking equals two 10x5/5, switching hand every set, ao basically 100 reps. Recently I did a few sessions of x4/4 EMOM 16min and they were really hard, avg HR 170+. But this rep scheme would be great for "all out" days :)
 

damogari

Level 7 Valued Member
My choice would be 10 sets of 6.

Thank you, I remember that you planned to start Bent & Sinister after achieving Sinister in S&S, can you tell me more why you prefer this particular rep scheme? What rep scheme do you recommend for BP?
 

Pavel Macek

Level 9 Valued Member
Master Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
Sinister
Thank you, I remember that you planned to start Bent & Sinister after achieving Sinister in S&S, can you tell me more why you prefer this particular rep scheme? What rep scheme do you recommend for BP?

Many options. I would personally start with @Pavel 's recommendation:

"5x1 for the BtP, e.g, work up in singles, then do a couple of back off triples."
 

Harald Motz

Level 8 Valued Member
Persanally I am biased to working swinging heavy for fives multiple repeats.
Snatching I would practice for strong singles from set up to staying a strong tight lockout and parking with authority somewhat heavy bell.
Building from a grooved singles over long term up to fives. For some repeats with just enough recovery.
 

Ivan Merl

Level 6 Valued Member
I just did a two week block of 10x10 on snatches and 10x1 for the BtP. I found that by the end of the week I was feeling very tired and my lower back sore (probably because my form suffered from fatigue). Next time I think I will alternate days of snatches and swings. 100 snatches a day was too much for me to start with.
 

Sauli

Level 8 Valued Member
10x5 for snatches and 5x1-2 for bent press looks simple enough to work. Progress s&s-style. This my two cents for this discussion. I would do it like this. :)
 

Steve W.

Level 8 Valued Member
To me, more or less:

32kg swing x 10 x 10 = 28kg snatch x 5 x 20 (easy/moderate, sustainable daily effort)

40kg swing x 5 x 20 = 32kg snatch x 5 x 20 (moderate +, 1-2x/week effort)

I mix and match during the week and often do more volume on a given day, but these are my baselines.

Also, due to surgery rehab, I am doing all training with one hand, so a given volume is a little harder than it would be alternating hands each set.
 

Glen

Level 6 Valued Member
Did 10. Snatches EMOM with 24kg bell for twenty minutes on Thursday - Yuck is all I can say.

Feel with that volume you naturally move to a softer style to keep the pace and really have to focus on trying to be crisp and snappy each rep
 

taro

Level 6 Valued Member
Thank You Pavel!
BP - 5x1/1 = singles
BP - 3x3/3 = triples
SNATCH - 5x 6/6

Is this good ?
 

Pavel Macek

Level 9 Valued Member
Master Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
Sinister
@taro number of singles - it depends. I like to work up to 90% "rate of perceived effort" - heavy, but still doable. As for triples, I like start with doubles and make them triples, then add weight. I like to do about 6 doubles/triples.
 
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