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Kettlebell The Red Zone

masa

Level 9 Valued Member
I don't know whether anyone is currently complying with this program. Started a new thread, because the previous one is closed. Here's the old Kettlebell - The Red Zone (Pavel, T. Program) and here's the program Bodybuilding Success Blueprint: The Red Zone -

Weighing between this RZ program and Gearpatrol Kettlebell - Pavel Gearpatrol 3 Quick Total Body Workouts Recommended by the Pros

Which one would be better for long time use. RZ uses similar one-hand swings than in S&S (5x10/ea), but Gearpatrol uses two-hand swing sets of 25 reps. RZ uses 5x5 for presses and Gearpatrol uses ladders. Anyone used both programs and which one you liked better?
 
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Sean M

Level 7 Valued Member
I ran HIRT for Hypertrophy last year, which is quite similar to the Gear Patrol program. The “redline power” swing sets with high-tension presses are a great combo.

I haven’t done Red Zone but it appears to be a close cousin to Rite of Passage. Unlike RoP, Red Zone keeps volume level while intensity grows with proficiency (you don’t start with 2 x 5x5, but do need to get in 2 x 25 reps/arm in 5-10 sets).

I give the edge to the Gear Patrol one. I love letting it rip with a heavy bell. The variation on swings/presses placement keeps it interesting too. On a 5-set swing day but light (2-ladder) press day it could be Swing-Press-Swing-Press-Swing, while it could be the opposite on a Monday (2-set swings) where you’re going for 5 press ladders.
 

pet'

Level 8 Valued Member
Hello,

I did Red Zone. Below is my experience with it.

As wisely said by @Sean M this is a close cousin of RoP. Overall, the volume is almost the same. 25 presses, 100 swings, 25 presses, 3x a week. It gives 150 presses a week whereas RoP is 155 at the end. Therefore, it terms of pure strength and hypertrophy, both programmes will be pretty similar.

Swings be done daily, for additional conditioning. The weight is not heavy, so it may not impair recovery, assuming there is no too much demanding activities alongside the routine.

Overall, this routine is more sustainable because the volume is roughly the same from a session to another. There is no such a gap between light and heavy, like in RoP. Recovery is then way easier, energy levels will remain more even. The good thing is that this is not a peak programme. One can do the first set with heavier weight, then scale down to a regular working weight, and progressively going heavier.

Durning the 1st lockdown, I ran in on alternate days with Timeless Simple with good results.

In my opinion, if GPP is the goal, this programme as effective as S&S. Sessions are relatively short as well.

Hope that helps, but feel free to ask anything you want about this routine.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 

masa

Level 9 Valued Member
Thanks @Sean M and @pet'. You gave me a lot to think. Good advises from both of you. I did Gearpatrol shortly, so maybe I just do cycle or two of that and then test the Red Zone a couple of cycles. There's nothing to lose by trying both, I guess. But I haven't decided anything yet. I want the knee to heal first and therefore I have time to think. Both are good programs, so it's hard to pick the other.
 

Kozushi

Level 7 Valued Member
I have played with both ROP and Red Zone. ROP's ladders I found more practical, since I couldn't necessarily do 5 presses every time I picked up the bell! Doing, 1, then 2, then 3 etc until I couldn't do any more, then restarting at 1 is absolutely fool-proof. I'd find I could start out doing sets of 5 for Red Zone but then ended up doing sets of 3 and then 2, yet I would patiently bear through it all until I hit the 50 mark. I'm not sure this was necessary. There is no magic number like "50". The press ladders create a natural and always-doable sequence that never fails. If I can only get to 3 or even 2, then that's fine... I start back at 1 and do the next ladder.

The other comment I can make is comparing 2h swings with 1h. The 1h swings recruit more different muscles in the body, so they're just better overall, but if we're talking what would be better for something like judo, I'm not sure. I might actually think that the 2h swings are better, since they train you to explode with full force the way being limited by grip strength by the 1h swings can't allow you to do. 2h swings allow you to swing a heavier kettlebell a whole lot harder than a 1h kettlebell. I really noticed a loss in judo when I switched from 2h 40kg kettlebell swings to 1h 32kg kettlebell swings. There were things I could do when training 2h that I could no longer do when going down to 1h.
 

masa

Level 9 Valued Member
Thanks @Kozushi, my friend. I liked your detailed comparison between the 1H and 2H swings, because it's important factor for me. I found out that I have a possible wear in my right knee. It's been punctured now twice and got some cortisone shots. Other knee was operated 2016, when I got a patella tendon damage. I also have a structured convex scoliosis.

Considering my limitations, which would be better? To do 2H swings with long sets (in this case 25 reps) or do 1H swings with shorter sets (in this case 10 reps)? Which would be easier on the knees and low back?
 

pet'

Level 8 Valued Member
Hello,

Seen from the frontal plane, 2h swings split the weight evenly between both sides of the body. So from a pure physics standpoint, it may be easier to do 2h. Basically, using a 40kg bell, 20kg will be on the right side, 20kg on the left side. Plus, 1h swings also have an anti-rotation component, which 2h do not have. As power comes from the ground, it may be more difficult for you to swings at max power on the right side, due to the required stabilization.

Usually, as long as you can "compensate" the lighter weight you use with 1h, by using a heavier 2h, the latter may be safer.

D. John's 10k challenge also calls for longer sets (25) using a 2h swings. So I guess that's fine to do longer sets with 2h, as long as you rest accordingly. However, nothing prevents you from doing shorter sets (10-15) with 2h and heavy bell, to stay in the A+A energy pathway. That way, you may be generate even more power. Indeed, 25 reps could be too long for A+A. It has its place in a training, but the adaptation will be slightly different.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 

Kozushi

Level 7 Valued Member
Thanks @Kozushi, my friend. I liked your detailed comparison between the 1H and 2H swings, because it's important factor for me. I found out that I have a possible wear in my right knee. It's been punctured now twice and got some cortisone shots. Other knee was operated 2016, when I got a patella tendon damage. I also have a structured convex scoliosis.

Considering my limitations, which would be better? To do 2H swings with long sets (in this case 25 reps) or do 1H swings with shorter sets (in this case 10 reps)? Which would be easier on the knees and low back?
The 2h swings have a lot of advantages. I think of them as much safer than 1h swings, a lot easier on the grip, and they allow you to put your full force into the swings. 1h swings are quite limiting because you are limited by your grip strength. I completely accept that 1h swings engage more muscles throughout the body, but 2h swings allow you to go harder, without it even really feeling too hard! I always did my 2h swings in sets of 10 - so 10X10 just like in S&S. The idea is to get the kettlebell to accelerate, and this is hard to do when you are doing too many reps. It is not the weight of the bell that makes it good for you but how fast and hard you swing it.

No one at Strong First is saying that 2h swings are not good to do (as you of course know.) From my own experience with swings, I honestly believe 2h swings to be a lot more useful for judo than 1h. A _lot_. Getting the powerful hip-hinge in there with both hands gripping the adversary is where it's at!
 

masa

Level 9 Valued Member
Thanks @pet' and @Kozushi. Both of your responses are in line of each other and I agree with you both. Good thinking. Carry on. I'm not good with the energy systems, but I know, that HIRT uses glycolytic part I. What ever that means in the end, but its long sets with a long rest.
 

pet'

Level 8 Valued Member
Hello @masa

Here is a protocol with HIRT

Kind regards,

Pet'
 

masa

Level 9 Valued Member
Hello @masa

Here is a protocol with HIRT

Kind regards,

Pet'
Thanks! I've seen it, but now I don't have to search.
 

masa

Level 9 Valued Member
The variation on swings/presses placement keeps it interesting too. On a 5-set swing day but light (2-ladder) press day it could be Swing-Press-Swing-Press-Swing, while it could be the opposite on a Monday (2-set swings) where you’re going for 5 press ladders.
I'm sold! I didn't thought it this way. That would be very time efficient way to do it. Alternate both lifts. I have only tried before and after swings, but not in between. Can't wait to try it. I have to heal my knee first. Thanks for the advise.
 

masa

Level 9 Valued Member
I’m leaning towards the Red Zone. I think it’s more sustainable in the long run. Gearpatrol is more glycolytic with swings and some advise use HIRT in a six week cycles. Now I’m waiting the knee to heal.
 
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